Cyclists on the road WIBU AND WWYD?

[thedcbrokemybank]

I was driving somewhere yesterday and came across a peleton of cyclists, about 15 of them, spread about 50m apart. I was on single track back roads. There was a car in front of me but it was a mini and was able to get past more easily. When the road widened I tried overtaking but because there were so many of them and they were quite spread out it wasn't that simple. A car came towards me so I had to split the group up and pull in. This went on for at least a mile and then I needed to turn left. I was still trying to get past them at this point so I indicated and stopped in the road. If it was a car they would have waited behind me but some of them undertook on the inside. Some of them waited behind shouting abuse at me. I genuinely did not know what to do. Obviously because they were a big group and so spread out overtaking them had taken a lot longer than I expected and I didn't realise that I would need to turn before getting past them. The road stays single track for a long way. I really don't think it is appropriate for such a big group of cyclists to be riding on roads like that and if they do need to they should split into smaller groups so that cars can pass safely. WWYD in this situation?

Why is it obvious that you stopped? Unless there was an obstruction in the road you were turning into, it shouldn't be necessary.

When this came up previously in another thread, it was concluded that if a cyclist tries to pass a car on the left, while the car is turning left, the resulting collision is the car owners fault, for not waiting until the cyclist is past.

I suspect most car drivers in the left-most lane think they can turn left without worrying about people behind them, so the OP was a better-than-average driver, in this respect.

Just to be clear, I don't agree with cyclists passing a turning car on the left. I just know (as a driver) that I will get the blame if there's a collision.

What does road tax pay for? Serious question. Cyclists don't pay road tax 🤔

Careful! Despite it being commonly known as road tax, a know it all will be along soon to berate you as road tax doesn't exist! Blah blah blah! Vehicle excise duty! Blah blah blah. Unreasonable car drivers! Blah blah blah.

Sorry OPsoubds like shoddy driving on your part. Attempting an overtake when it wasn't safe, having to pull into a group of cyclists and then stoping to make a turn that you didn't anticipate? Bad forward planning. Be more patient next time, for everyone's safety.

Although their undertaking of you was also very stupid, had you actually turned, (considering they were most likely think you were a stupid driver, so potentially likely) they would have been far worse off.

Podrig - we all pay for the roads because it comes or of general taxation. The 'road tax' that car owners pay is based on emissions. Bicycles do not have any emissions.

people keep saying they were going quite fast however 20mph isnt that fast in what is persumably a 60 also Being overtaken. 'If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.' thatb would apply to the very first cyclist you overtook inthe line and so on so im assuming it was safe when you first saw secondly Rule 167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road the cyclist clearly bokr this
and thirdly what ever the right or wrongs are theirs no need to verbally abusive by swearing

As a general rule, you are only supposed to pass cyclists with a car's width of space. Cyclists sometimes purposefully cycle quite far from the curb/gutter to prevent cars squeezing past dangerously.

I am a cyclist who lives on a narrow country lane. Most cars pass me safely but I would say as many as 1 in 5 do it dangerously.... either putting me in danger or themselves. There is one particular point where there is a steep hill with a blind bend at the top and some drivers are in such a rush they overtake me on the wrong side of the road on the blind bend. Obviously it is frustrating to drag up a steep hill at 5mph. I always let cars past when I'm at the top, though.

But when do drivers have to treat a load of cyclists as if they are a single vehicle? Where I live, there are huge amounts of remote, single track roads. The rule is you pull over and let faster vehicles behind pass. They should have done this - anything with an engine is going to be faster. But, if I were overtaking a loose line of cars, with gaps, I could overtake one car, pull in in front of it, then a second car further on. Why can't you do this for cycles that are strung out?

Userschmoozer does that matter? Should is good enough. All road users should think about other road users. I am not defending the OPs driving here, it sounds like she made some pot judgement calls too but, rightly or wrongly, often they are the result of getting frustrated by poor road etiquette by others.

The Highway Code states cyclists should not cycle more than two abreast, especially on narrow roads. So yes, they should have shown more consideration, but when was the last time you met a considerate cyclist? They're a law unto themselves I'm afraid.

I did make a bad judgement call and I wouldn't do the same again. However I made a bad judgement because of the situation. I wasn't in a hurry, frustrated or impatient. I simply thought that I had time to get past them safely. I misjudged how far apart they were spread and it took a lot longer than I had anticipated. It wasn't their fault that I didn't realise my turn was nearer than I thought but I will stand by the fact that they were being inconsiderate of other road users and riding in a way that put themselves and other road users in a dangerous position.

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
the cyclist clearly broke this and as there split out theres no law that sais a group of cyclist have to ride behind each other single file if the driver came in with out cutting any cyclist up then theres no problem if she did then as userschmoozer says its a should anyway but there was absolutely no need for being abusive that is clear

I think they were in the wrong for sure! They need to consider that sort of situation.

@TheSmallPrint

Yes, it matters a lot. One is illegal and the other is a suggestion.

@thedcbrokemybank

I will stand by the fact that they were being inconsiderate of other road users and riding in a way that put themselves and other road users in a dangerous position.

How did their riding put them in a dangerous position? Oh yes, because idiots in cars can't control their tempers and dangerously overtake. Nice bit of (potential) victim blaming there.

Well done for nearly taking responsibility for your actions. When being left-hooked by a driver, I do consider it entirely reasonable to give the wing mirror a big kick - it functions excellently in lieu of a horn. It also acts as a nice reference point of exactly how poor the driving was.

@bluegreenyellow

there was absolutely no need for being abusive that is clear

True, but feeling vulnerable and having a near miss can lead to losing your temper.

I would have just waited behind them. I find eventually cyclists get into single file to let you over take if they realise you can't otherwise.

Unless it's an emergency 10 mins added to a journey isn't a big deal. Too many people think just because they are in a car it means they should be going as fast as possible at all times.

I once read a comment on a similar thread to this where it reminded everyone that bikes were around long before cars and in any case, cars are only allowed on the roads on a licence, not a right.

The upshot being, why don't the cars all feck off onto their special, built for them and only them, motorways and leave the rest of the roads to their rightful users

bikes were around long before cars

Not really, real ones of both weren't until the 1880's, if anything the car came first (steam engined cars). You can certainly argue that bikes were in use by most people long before cars, and in any case, as sane people have said, stay behind the cyclists until it's safe, particularly if you're about to turn left!

if a cyclist tries to pass a car on the left, while the car is turning left, the resulting collision is the car owners fault, for not waiting until the cyclist is past

It totally depends on the circumstances. If I overtake a cyclist and then cut them up to turn left, it's my fault.

If I indicate left in plenty of time, but for some reason a cyclist catches me up before I turn, it's their fault. I always check my mirrors because I know some are nincompoops and won't slow down, but they are still in the wrong in that situation.

A cyclist is not allowed to create an extra lane on the road. If a car is indicating left they should hang back. If you are indicating right, you would not expect another vehicle to overtake you because they could not be bothered to wait until you'd turned. There is no justification for a cyclist undertaking.

I find eventually cyclists get into single file to let you over take if they realise you can't otherwise.

I think they actually were single file and that was the problem. It meant a very long line that was impossible to overtake. They could and should have created a gap. I don't disagree that everyone thinks they should go a lot faster in a car, but actually, if you are stuck behind cyclists (or a very slow car/tractor etc) you use up far more fuel. It's more eco-friendly for cyclists to let cars get past every so often.

**How did their riding put them in a dangerous position? Oh yes, because idiots in cars can't control their tempers and dangerously overtake. Nice bit of (potential) victim blaming there.

Well done for nearly taking responsibility for your actions. When being left-hooked by a driver, I do consider it entirely reasonable to give the wing mirror a big kick - it functions excellently in lieu of a horn. It also acts as a nice reference point of exactly how poor the driving was.**

How can you have potential victim blaming when the incident has passed and there was no victim. I also did not left hook anyone. As I have stated I stopped with enough room either side of me to let the cyclists past. Also please do not project on me - I didn't have a temper and I wasn't in any hurry. I just thought I had room and time to pass them.
Yes they were unreasonable. I have driven that road again today. I was being conservative in my initial post they were spread out about 70m. They were neither in a group, groups or riding as individuals. They were in dribs and drabs.

The problem is that people just don't think enough, both drivers and cyclists. Most of the cyclists I meet when I'm riding are great, calling out and slowing down and I try to reciprocate by getting out of their way as quickly as possible although I do have an issue with some of the groups we get round here.

I was driving my horsebox, indicating to turn left up a steep hill off a main road and as I was turning a pack of cyclists (15 or so) coming the opposite way shot across me and went up the hill. As it was steep they ground to an almost halt and I was stuck behind them struggling to keep any momentum even in first gear as they were going so slowly. The road is incredibly narrow and there is no way I could have got past them even if they were in single file. For the best part of a mile we ground up the hill until it was wide enough and safe for me and the cars behind to get past. If they'd just paused (they wouldn't have had to stop) before they turned off the main road I could have got ahead of them and out of their way, but no it didn't occur to them that it might be easier for me. That wasn't the end of it, I got to some traffic lights and stopped but the cyclists came around the lorry, stopped in front of me and then when the lights changed set off (uphill again) so slowly that before I'd got to the end of the roadworks the lights coming towards me were green so the oncoming traffic was held up.

Behaviour like that does them no favours - and I'm aware that some people find horses and horseboxes a pain in the arse too (I frequently pull over in the horsebox and it's amazing how slow people are to realise that you're letting them past and how few of them give any sort of acknowledgement!) - so we all need to be a little more aware of other road users and think about what we're doing.

@thedcbrokemybank

How can you have potential victim blaming when the incident has passed and there was no victim.

The clue is in the word potential! Your dangerous maneuver had the potential to kill them when you were unable to overtake safely and cut back in "splitting the group".

Their riding may have been unreasonable but the danger was when you decided to try and overtake, and failed to do so safely.

I'm not projecting. I'm a very calm and safe driver. I have lost my temper in the past when the adrenaline's pumping and an idiot in a car has endangered my life through their "bad judgements".

I was being conservative in my initial post they were spread out about 70m. They were neither in a group, groups or riding as individuals. They were in dribs and drabs.

So? They have every right to do so. You may not like it but a) every poster has said you were in the wrong b) you were in the wrong c) they can do it every day and twice on Sundays and the only person in the wrong, dangerously overtaking because they were riding in dribs and drabs was.... you.

I will stand by the fact that they were being inconsiderate of other road users and riding in a way that put themselves and other road users in a dangerous position.

No.

You. Put. Them. In. A. Dangerous. Situation.

They may have been inconsiderate (holding up a precious driver who wanted to get somewhere 2 minutes sooner and considered this more important than cyclists' lives) but they didn't create this dangerous situation.

It seems there's no getting through to you but I'd love to hear how their riding put them into a dangerous position?

There's some interesting use of language here.

The cyclists weren't "inconsiderate" they were breaching the Highway Code. And whilst absolutely the OP was misguided (as she has admitted!) we shouldn't be dressing up that the cyclists are without blame.

Cyclists should follow the rules of the road in exactly the same way as all road users should.

breaching the Highway Code

Can you define 'breaching' as they weren't doing anything illegal riding in dribs and drabs. There are guidelines you can follow if you wish and laws you must follow. From the sound of it, they dared to be in her way and she fell foul of Driving without Due Care and Attention ("It is an offence to drive without due care or attention or without reasonable consideration for others").

How were they to blame for her dangerous maneuver? The same way I shouldn't get drunk and walk home by myself in a short skirt?

There was one person responsible for the OP's dangerous driving.