WIBU to ask DH not to take this job (academia)?

[milodancing]

DH is currently doing a postdoc which is due to end soon. He moved to a different country to do it and we were long distance for 2 years. I then got pregnant and moved to where he is late in the pregnancy. Our baby is now 3 months old.

We plan to move back to the UK at the end of my mat leave so that I can return to my job, which I love and is better job security, conditions etc than his. We had agreed that he would look for positions commuting distance from where we live, and that if he couldn't find an academic position he would look at options outside of academia. However he has not been able to find anything so far.

He has out of the blue been offered a position at a very prestigious university, however it is only for a year's contract and the city is around 4 hours by train from where we live in the UK. As it is such a short contract we could not practically relocate there, so the only way he could take it would be if we lived apart in the week and he just came back at weekends. It would start in 6 months so when our baby is 9 months old and around the time I would be going back to work and the baby starting nursery.

I feel that we have already sacrificed a lot for his career. We lived apart for 2 years and I have given birth and spent the early months of our baby's life far from our families and friends. If he takes this job it would mean another year of living separately during the week and me working full time and looking after the baby on my own in the week. Neither of our families are local so I would have very little practical support. There is also no guarantee that he would be able to find anything after the year's contract was up, so he might have to end up moving out of academia at that point anyway. It is proving very difficult to balance his career, where to pursue it fully means moving wherever in the world the jobs are, with my career and our family life.

On the other hand, this opportunity would look good on his CV and hopefully make it easier to find another position in academia. It is probably the best department in the country and a brilliant team. He would really enjoy the work, and if he doesn't take it might end up with nothing at all. I am worried that he might resent me and the baby if he was not able to find anything else. I also feel like if he leaves academia all the sacrifices we have already made will have been for nothing.

It is obviously a decision that we need to make together but I would appreciate any advice. My gut feeling is that I don't want us to live apart again, especially while our baby is so young. I would welcome any views especially from anyone who has been in a similar situation.

DH and I were both postdocs. My answer would be he is now a father and he needs to prioritise his family. Staying in academia, as he already knows, probably means a few more moves in the future. What is his opportunity in industry? I'm in industry now. Pay is a lot better. Not much travelling required (at most one day a month). And no ridiculous working 70 or 80 hours a week.

The postdoctoral position in academic is tough. It will be temporary contracts until he can find a permanent position. The main question is whether there are any universities near your job he is likely to get a job at. Most people have to be able to move.

If he is not likely to get a job near your job, you have a longer term issue. That said, I know couples who make it work but the DC are older. I was in this position with a baby.

The first year back at work is really hard. That is the first thing. However, I would say it depends on the nature of the position and the type of person your DH is. Does he need to be there five days a week? Could he work at home and be at the uni three days a week or something? It depends what he is being asked to do.

My ex was very inflexible in his way of working, but had a position which afforded flexibility. My resentment came through him not taking advantage of that, rather than the fact that his job was x miles away. And not being hands on when he was there. So, it depends on the nature of the job and the type of person your DH is. If you are doing most of the domestic work now, you will be the person it falls to when baby comes. If you have an equal partnership and his job affords a degree of flexibility, then it could be okay.

It is a difficult one. I read back and you had the baby with an agreement in place. There is always the danger as a woman you will be left holding the baby. Women tend to do more domestically anyway, the question is how much more here.

Because of the realities of academic careers, if he doesn't take this he will probably say goodbye to his academic career forever - I think you should consider this over the long term, imagine him without his career and his earning potential being low in the long term, what is the financial and emotional impact of that? The fact it's at a prestigious university suggests his prospects are pretty good and if he does well his contract is likely to be extended or else he will find it easier to get an academic job elsewhere after it. Would you lose your career or your current job if you relocated there? This is a really difficult question. I think it is a very difficult situation but the fault of the academic system, expecting people at the time in the life they probably have young children and a partner to move often and the insecurity. However there are some benefits over other careers from a family perspective - often flexible hours/work from home potential, good potential to get work overseas if you wanted to emigrate. I think I would be tempted to be apart during the week temporarily with you keeping your job and home and see how his new job goes and how you manage with work and a baby, see if it is going to become a more permanent thing for him and if you can manage OK with return to work plus baby by yourself and then decide whether to move or not if things go well for him there. Perhaps there will be potential for him to be home 3 days a week not just 2. It is a rubbish situation - he can have his career but only if you sacrifice either your job and possibly career or your family life the majority of the time.

I would prioritise your career. I initially thought 'what is one more year?' But actually it is as much the underlying principle. At the moment, your career and family life is coming second to his career despite you having the better pay. If this job can't pay for itself- and filling the gap he leaves in childcare is part of the cost, then he can't afford to take it.

If you want to go ahead, maybe nursery and an au pair would be the way to go, unless you have good family support.

It's the best time for him to accept this and for you to move . If your DC was in school it would be a completely different matter. It might develop into something much more long term. Do your research into the area to find best value place to live

There seem to be a few factors in the balance here which make for no straightforward solution. Academia is tough at the moment - there aren't many permanent contracts around - and that's unlikely to improve over the foreseeable while things are so unsettled. A short term contract at a prestigious university is a good start.

If he went for a job outside of academia is there likely to be a similar problem finding a permanent role? How niche is his field of expertise?

How flexible is your career? Do you hope to have more children? Does your employer offer a career break policy which could allow you to delay your return so you aren't separated for a year?

The BU part here is hard to determine as academia asks a lot and, now you have a child, I can completely understand you being concerned about this arrangement, especially if you're worried you will end up with the lion's share of parenting, household and earning responsibilities.

Perhaps you need to talk again about the practicalities and, if he chooses to go ahead, I think you need to be talking now about what happens in 9 months because you may find his career moves from contract to extension to contract for a few years and if you may struggle with that now's the time to mention it.

Academic jobs are really hard to get.... and if he actually has one ( even with only a year's contract initially) then he would need to consider the implications of not accepting. Realistically the chances of one coming up closer to where you live and in his field are probably not great and also there may be a lot of competition from people with more experience tec and so may realistically not get it anyway but may be more likely to get it with some experience.
How likely is he to get another job with similar pay locally?

Four hours away from family does not sound that bad either (tbh, we currently live a 12 hour plane trip away from our families, so my perspective is different)

That's something I noticed with academic couples. If they were both in England it didn't really count as long distance. Flexible hours and the ability to work from home means you can often have a long weekend, although you're working at home for large parts of it.

I've known some couples who would have been happy just to be on the same continent. Others break up. Some find alternative careers - and if you think of the number of PhD students vs the number of permanent jobs in academia, you can't all stay in the university system.

Maybe he could have a chat with one or two of his senior colleagues and see how realistic they think his chances are. If he's been offered a job in such a prestigious university they're presumably better than average. Do his colleagues see him as a rising star who must stay in the field, or someone very competent who will nonetheless struggle in such a tough job market? (NB pick the colleagues to ask carefully. Academics can be bastards for doing down their peers).

Sounds like baby has arrived at a difficult time - in academic careers you have to take the chances when they come especially in the early years. Working full time with a baby on your own isn't impossible - it's only 12 months and he will presumably have holidays.

I wanted to add to the realistic future in that even if he gets a lecturership it might not be permanent. A friends DH who was a postdoc where I was. He is now on his second lecturering position. He earns peanuts and she's in a much better paying position. Child in Y1 now. She stays near where their home is and both sets of grandparents came to stay with her to help with childcare. With commute, it is not possible for her to stay in FT work and be on time for pick up and drop off.

So don't underestimate the effort it takes on the part of the spouse to support an academic career. She wants to find a job so they all can live together. But it is not realistic until he gets a permanent position. He had considered positions overseas too btw.

I think yabu a bit. It's only for a year and you would be seeing him at weekends. I say this as a military wife whose H is often away for months on end, and who went away when both dc were only a few weeks old. No outside help apart from the odd day once a fortnight from IL. I kept working for many years before it became untenable as he was spending more time away than with us. I understand how hard it can be, but really think that for one tough year you can suck it up so he can take this job (which are thin on the ground as it is) and possibly be in a better position next year. You're not really making much of a sacrifice really. (And it's best for both partners to stay in work if possible.)

This is really difficult. If he takes it then things will be very difficult for you, in my opinion, as juggling restarting your job and looking after your baby will be hard work and as pp have said, taking time off when they are inevitably ill could affect your job. We had 2 under 2 and we split time off for child illness and my work still aren't impressed (6 days off each this academic year so far).

However if he doesn't take it then it will massively affect his career. I would be concerned that whichever option you take as a couple, one person may feel very resentful (I think I probably would) and you both need to talk through this a lot.

Academia is a terribly un-family-friendly career. However, it does seem a good opportunity.
Might there be a possibility of him working at least one - possibly two days from home each week, meaning he is at home more? I realise that if he is based in a lab this might be more tricky, but even then, there is a lot of time spent at the laptop, and it might be he could organise his workload so he can do a lot of it on a particular day of the week?
I think you need to give some consideration to how important this career is to him - a lifetime of work is a lot of hours to be spending doing something you hate. Is this the right time to be closing the door to the career he wants? I know it will be a hard few months, but you have to look at it as part of 45 working years.

I think I would let him go for it on the proviso that he looks for a permanent job in industry at the end of the year. If it's a particularly prestigious place he's going to then then his colleagues etc will most likely be well connected even within industry which could help him. My OH and I were in a similar position except I was in your DH position and chose to look for something permanent. All the industry roles of decent salary I could find at that time involved a lot of international travel so I essentially had to change career. Ultimately that has had a huge effect on us due to a huge drop in salary that won't recover any time soon and I regret not taking the temporary contract. If I had I could have focused on finding the right position in industry during that contract, making sure I had the right contacts and extra training etc.

Academia is a terribly un-family-friendly career

It can be, yes. You're unlikely to finish training for it until you're 24/25. You then have horrible job insecurity and are expected to scramble around taking short term contracts in whichever city on whatever continent will take you. There's no guarantee of a career at the end of this and in the meantime whilst you're earnings will be above average, you may have high travel costs. Hours can be horrendous.

On the other hand if you do get that precious contract, you have the ultimate in flexitime. So long as you produce the research and publications, do your lectures and go to seminars and conferences, you can work from midday to 2am if that's what works for you. And if you're not tied to a lab you can work wherever there's an internet connection.

If I had I could have focused on finding the right position in industry during that contract, making sure I had the right contacts and extra training etc

Is that an option OP? For him to take the contract and have this year to find a long term position, whether it's in academia or outside it? So yes, for 12 months you will still be apart but at the end of it, hopefully he should have something longer term in place or near to a place where you can settle as a family?

Thing is, if he doesn't take this job, OP it may be the end of an academic career.

A one-year fellowship at the best place for his subject, after getting all the way through an excellent high 1st Class Hons undergrad degree, a Distinction at Masters, and then a funded PhD ... (well, that would be the progression nowadays in my field) - to give that up now would be terribly hard.

But I can see your point of view as well: this 1 year Fellowship may not lead to anything else anyway, and so far, it's been his career that's been prioritised between you.

However, if you say that you don't want him to do it, you need to be prepared to step up and really go for it in your career, and no going on the "mummy track." You would need to be prepared for him to be more or less the SAHD and run the household etc. until he finds another job.

I don't think you can have it both ways ...

I do see your dilemma, though, but maybe you both need to think about what's at stake., and how you both need to plan your careers.

What are his options if he leaves academia?

Does academia represent the best option for well paid, reliable work, or would industry or another field be better on paper?

I think, for me, it would depend a lot on how he sees it. Does he get that he's asking a lot of you? Despite what some people here seem to think, looking after a baby on your own 5 days a week, while you go back to work and also bring in most of the money is a big deal. If he properly understood that it is a big deal, is willing to look after the baby a day on the weekend (at least) to give you a break, and would be willing to walk away from academia if this doesn't result in a permanent job, I might be ok with it.

But I do think - based on having a lot of academic friends - that you have to be really careful that this doesn't turn into his career always coming first and you always having to work around you. That just isn't fair.

I don't know if this is a silly suggest, but couldn't you alternate childcare every other week. In the same way that you might do alternate weeks if you had split and had equal time with the child. So on week 1, you have child mon-fri. Together at weekend, he takes child back with him for week B, then they all return on the Friday night?

Obviously that's only if you can wangle childcare for that, but it means you are not having to take on all the parenting whilst working full time. It also gives you a chance to recuperate. It would be tricky to wangle the childcare, but not necessarily impossible.