To think has vanity sizing gone mad?

[nineanimals]

I am 5'7 and weigh 12st 5.

I was in Matalan today to buy some new skinny jeans. I took a size 14 in the changing room to try on - absolutely massive! So I had to go for a size 12!

Sorry but there's no way in hell that someone of my proportions is a size 12!

Same thing happened in Asda. In fact in there even size 12 were loose!!

Madness!

This is why I have to buy things in children's clothes. Or size 4 and if I am very lucky a size 6. I am 5 feet and not even six Stone

It's mail order which is frustrating I find. I'm 5'4" and pretty fat. My wardrobe is full of wearable clothes between a 14 and a 22 (majority 18-20). I bought three dresses from COS recently: two fitted perfectly, but the third - same size, different style - was way too tight. If I'd read the sizing guide I probably wouldn't have even attempted buying from them, but I've other dresses bought from the store and I know the sizing is, um, creative.

I'm 5'10 and about 9.5 stone
I'm an 8/10 but sometimes even a size 8 is too big yet when I was a teenager and 5'10 and 8.5 stone I remember always buying size 10 and v occasionally an 8 so sizing has really changed a lot in 20 years

And another thing - When I was 18 in 1980, I was a 10, and then by mid 80s a 12, and there was no such thing as size 6 and below...I was small and skinny back then and you could occasionally find a size 8 but they just didn't make the smaller sizes - and I lived in London and shopped on Oxford st so if anywhere was going to have smaller sizes it was there.

I disagree with MumBod. Vanity sizing is very much a reality. My size in shop I purchase from routinely since being a teenager has changed from a 4US (used to be the smallest size) to a 000US 20 years later. My size has not changed.

The problem of vanity sizing makes shopping in many high street shops an impossibility for me. What is true is that vanity sizing is definitely a bigger problem in the more reasonably priced shops - the more expensive the shop, the less likely that vanity sizing is a problem. Definitely not a problem in designer clothing where my size has remained the same for the past 20 years.

In term of sizing, my brother who is a technical designer (the person who is in charge of creating the patterns and production) gave me some insight into it. There is a fit model and different sizes are scaled (mostly) up from that size. He works in the higher end of fashion so his fit models are thinner than average and taller than average, and their size is calculated at size 6US (8/10 UK).

I am not particularly small (5ft 1, 9.5 stone) yet in next I am a size 6, in Asda I can't fit any of the adult clothes and actually have a pair of 11-12 jeans that fit me (with the waist taken in!)

I have found that shopping for clothes is much harder now I have lost weight than when I was a size 20/22

I've got a glorious skirt from Laura Ashley...1970s...it says 14 on it but the waist fits my skinny 12 year old who is about a UK women's 6.

In terms of vanity sizing and men, it is more difficult to do as men's sizing is usually based on waist size ( trousers), chest size and neck size. This is why vanity sizing and jeans is less prevalent as jean sizing is based on a waist measurement.

I'm 5'3 and 8 stone, probably a fairly average size 8 and in Gap which is my staple shop I get xxs where available (recently introduced because xs was getting bigger), 24" jeans and size 0 when they do US sizes. I'm not that small. Used to be 26/27" in Seven/Diesel jeans back in the day and still the same size.

I've just lost a load of weight and genuinely have no idea what size to pick up in shops. It varies so much!

I agree it is getting ridiculous.i could never find size 8 in M&S , now they have loads. Except, of course, they are the old size 10 or 12. Worse still are Uniqlo. I have always bought small in there. There sizes have always been on them small size. Now I have to buy extra small but they don't fit properly. Too tight on the bum but huge on the waist.

Another, 'I'm so slender, look at me! Stores just pander to fatties, my BMI (everyone knows this is a shite way of measuring especially for people who do a lot of physical activity) is 10!' stealth boast body dysmorphia thread! Yay! Let's have a disordered eating one!

Go to a shop. Try on clothes. Buy them if you like them. Don't buy them if you don't.

I am a magazine journalist and many moons ago, I tried to do a feature about this for my mag. We rang every high street store and asked for their measurements for a size 14, so we could compare across stores and see if (for example) Next was big and H&M small etc. None of them had consistent sizes. Not one. So you could pick up a size 14 pair of trousers in M&S that fit perfectly, pick up another pair of trousers in a different style and need a 16. Like others have said it's to do with fit and fabric and your shape.

I also hate the term 'vanity sizing'.

1970s and earlier clothes were tailored to strict measurements and their was less in the way of stretch fabric, so absolutely no wiggle room. I was a fairly hefty 14-16, depending on the garment.

Now I often wear size 10s in comfortable clothes and am 12-14 tailored, while being exactly the same weight as my teenage self (10 stone). Oh and I'm not fat any more, apparently.

*there

Another, 'I'm so slender, look at me! Stores just pander to fatties
Look at measuremrnts over time. A size 14 20 years ago is smaller than now.
People have got bigger

Make sizes bigger fine. But then people cant complain about the need for size 4s. Theres loads of criticisms when shops bring in a 4 (which is needed because sizes have got bigger) but nobody challenges the comcept of a size 32.

Another, 'I'm so slender, look at me! Stores just pander to fatties

I put all the weight back on so stores are certainly pandering to me right now.

Sainsburys, tee-shirt size 12 fits fine. 3/4 sleeve top size 10 but that is a bit roomy and I will have to try an 8. Tesco, linen ankle grazers size 12, perfect as normal length trousers as I'm just under 5ft and weigh 8 3/4 stone.

Don't get me started on the current trend for sleeves for twig arms either. Many a top has been disregarded because to get comfortable arms the rest of the top is hanging off me. Or the top fits and the sleeves are uncomfortably tight.

There is no way I could buy clothing without trying it on first. It's a pain trying on in shops but I can't be arsed with going back and fore for refunds.

"Even the name 'vanity sizing' is snidey"

Is there an alternative term for the phenomenon? This one has been around since the 1990s, but if there's a different term which means the same and bothers people less, I'd use it.

Someone asked what do small people actually wear now

I'm a traditional size 6. Mostly I buy a 6 or a 4. Topshop and H&M are more reliable, maybe because their target market are younger? Dresses I have to get taken in. There's usually only a few size 6s so I buy an 8 and get it adjusted.

I agree with others its not vanity sizing its

"What the fuck are these shops playing at sizing"

Not quite as catchy but it pisses me off as well

I am much much bigger than i used to be but my clothes range from 12-16

I just want to walk into a shoo and pick up a basic t shirt without having to take 3 in with me

I am AT LEAST a size 16 on my top due to my boobs and i bought a lovely t shirt from fat face last year in a 12...which was still a bit big

I was in and out of that changing room so often that the staff were taking bets !!

I do find the term 'vanity sizing' very annoying as well

Im sure the phrase vanity sizing came up as a euphemism for "people are getting bigger/fatter so lets increase your measurements so they will still feel likw they fit into their old size and we can continue to relieve them of their money"

Given how tetchy people seem to get about it its no surprise theres a euphemism.

Vanity sizing is a thing, but not for the reasons people think.

There is no standard for clothing sizes, which shops mess about with to try and massage their customers egos. It's about averages. Shops don't order manufacture of, say 500 size 8s, 500 size 10s 500 size 12s 500 size 14s and 500 size 16s. There would be huge amounts of wastage at the lower and higher ends of the scale. So, they will know what their "average" customer is and order on a bell curve, so 750 12s 500 10s and 14s 250 8s and 16s. Their average customer will also influence how they design their fit - if their target is middle age they will pattern for larger bottoms and pouchier tummies than if they are targeting teenagers.

So a shop size 12 is simply equivalent to what will fit their "average" customer. So a George at Asda 12 will be designed differently and cut differently and based on different measurements to a Mango 12. They'll be made if different fabrics, either more forgiving or drapery, or more structured.

So while you won't be able to squeeze on a pair of top shop skinny jeans in a 10, because the pattern was modelled on a teenager with no hips, a marks and Spencer 10 will fit because it has been cut to accomodate a curvier bottom and wider thighs, even if they are both billed as for 36 inch hips.

CinderellaRockefeller that makes so much sense! Thanks for that.