Ascribing class & being different to family

[FairytalesAreBullshit]

This is a weird one I know.

I'm nothing like any other member of my family, not only health wise, but eye/hair colour, interests, academic ability, how I see the world. I joke about being swapped at birth, some poor family are in turmoil as they have a child that would fit in my family perfect

I was academic, I love things none of them have interests in like cultural stuff, the arts, classical music.

I'm also the only one who got a fairly decent job. I've said elsewhere, they're miffed I had to pack it in as I was ill.

I was wondering if you believe in class, some say and believe it's a social construct, those people have totally valid arguments.

I wondered is class something you can achieve with hard work and status, or something that is ascribed from birth?

I know I'm quite creative, so I often ponder life as an upper class person. Not the celeb crap like MIC, but old style life where you'd live in a big house, have a library that you could die for. No pressures to work, although if I could I'd jump at the chance, but it's the same with reading and pursuing interests, I can't even do that. There's one activity that suits someone supine, it's not my cup of tea at all.

I know some dream about Downton Abbey etc, I love history anyway. I'd like it all apart from servants, if I was ever in such a situation I'd be all bigger social protocols, I see you as my equal not my slave.

I wondered what class you think you are? Also are there any benefits apart from social ones in being from a different class?

Do you think interests help define things, or is it your career, family you were born into.

Dreamily I used to joke when I was a little child and a bit obnoxious at times, I used to scream I'm adopted.

The more I think about it, the more I think class isn't that important, I can't see the benefits, unless you had an amazing social life. Even those from poor / working class backgrounds can have different interests. It doesn't mean you have to fit a stereotype.

Still what colour of shoes would indicate that one is MC/WC/landed gentry?

Oxfords or brogues, laces or slip ons, brown or black, leather or fake.

Yes.

Class is here and not going away but I also view it as a barrier. It's an odd mix of habit, social cues and the least of it is money though that counts but there is the old money/ new money debate as well.

I'm from a working class family many still rent council houses and all have worked in minimum wage jobs, very hard but it's meant they have never ever had very much spare money. When it comes to what they like doing their lives have been smaller because of lack of resources.

I made quite a decent amount of money modelling when very young which I invested. I am also the only sister with any qualifications and I went to University. I ended up with a professional job and through that I met DH. I had an incredibly abusive relationship when young so ended up marrying DH because he was gentle, quite kind and also really quite wealthy. I have serious MH issues so he is a safe haven for me and he gets a trophy wife. His family are too gracious to say anything but I know they are disappointed in his choice.

It means I have married way out of my class. My memories are of stuff that is WC by the norms of society but also awful stuff but that's because of abuse which crosses all classes. His are things like going sailing, the housekeeper making him laugh and going off on hols to his families ancestral home in the countryside.

My sisters and I all love art, one is actually quite a talented artist. The difference is I have paid for art courses for pleasure and have flown round the world visiting different art galleries. She borrows books from the local library, draws at home and has only visited a couple of galleries in England which I took her to and paid for. So that's about money not class per se. She lives in her very modest home worrying about money but her love of art is as great if not greater than mine.

You seem aspirational mc personally I'm not ashamed of my actual wc roots at all. I never hide them.

I think the key indicator of class is whether you ask people to take their shoes off at the door:

Shoes on- UMC/UC
Shoes off- LMC/WC

Maybe if we ring a little crystal bell the op will come back

For the second time today on a thread I'll say "what?"

Seriously, what? You think your higher class than your family because you dream about downton abbey and want a massive library?

These threads always prove that the classes are a social construct; everyone has their own idea about what class means. For some liking art galleries is a definite indicator of belonging to a certain class, for others is it more subtle such as how you hold your handbag (?!) I'm not so sure that I agree that class is fluid.

This is brilliant.

Although I strongly suspect the influence of a substance.

Tell me more about shoes, clothes and hardbacks as class indicators please.

haha handbags

To be fair, I watch SpongeBob and wish I lived in a glass dome in the Pacific ocean with a pet snail who's my height.

I'm very interested in how MC people hold a handbag. A diagram would be most helpful.

My dm has a little hook so she can hang it on the edge of coffee shop tables

OP is trans-U.

I know I'm quite creative, so I often ponder life as an upper class person

Ah it was light hearted. It was a joke I remembered from when I was young, something I really believed in. If I give you a bit of context, I'm illegitimate, so it was pretty much expected I would fail in life and do really crap. I really wasn't wanted to the point my maternal family looked at adoption & aborting me privately way later than I'd legal. I was treated like the dirt that was scraped off their shoe, I excelled educationally but it was never celebrated. I was different to the rest of them, but that could have been due to the way I was treated. I still don't know to this day who my biological Dad is. My maternal family think this is a fitting punishment for the shame my existence bought on the family.

You could say I'm a day dreamer, despite that, I wouldn't want to live in a house where those who helped lived in a draughty attic. Maybe Downton has romanticised it all. If I had some one to help where I needed help, they would be an equal, living in a room the same as mine, with ensuite facilities. I wouldn't use the social protocols that they were staff, not to be seen or heard.

When you live a shitty life you can day dream right? By shitty I mean an existence where you're physically unable to do anything, you spend your time in agony, lay down, dreaming about random scenarios.

I don't think I'm above anyone, I just have different interests maybe. I think morally I'm better than my family, as I could never begin to understand why I was treated the way I have been to this present day. Not to make a pun out of Monty Python or anything, but I think children are a blessing that should be nurtured, not despised for circumstances they had no control over.

Make fun or light of what's been said. Take a minute though to consider children born in the 70's totally unaware why they were considered different. Or even children born today that are treated and experience what I have.

Am I wrong to imagine that life could have been different? To have had the childhood and relationship with my family that I saw and see friends have.

I'm glad to see some have a sense of humour about it.

I'm equally happy in a working mans club, or perhaps somewhere different.

I rarely get to see much at all, so I'll keep with my day dreaming. It takes me places I can't physically go.

Another hypothetical situation, Emma is born to a family, both parents on benefits, excels at school, goes to Uni, works her way up to a PhD. Marries someone from a different background. Whilst her roots are one thing, how would you describe what she has turned into.

Knifegrinder - you can have my gluten free artisan cookies.

Your later posts has put this thread into context- and a very sad context it is too. But at the same time, I think you have to accept that the sadness of your upbringing is not because of era or class, but because of individual decisions made by individuals and for which they are responsible. If your family treated you like shit, nobody was forcing them, not even in the 70s. Emotional abuse of children happens in all classes now, and did so then.

My MIL was brought up by her stepdad after her bio dad had upped and left when she was tiny: this was in the 1920s and he never treated her with anything but kindness.

Don't be afraid to admit that if your family treated you badly it was because they were not very nice people. Not because you were different but because they^ were wrong.

I genuinely have no idea which class bracket anyone I know falls into. I wouldn't even know where to put myself. Class as a formal way of categorising someone has surely gone, now?

I think class is to do with your upbringing. So it is partly down to your parents and how they behave but also partly down to your school, friends, area you live in, what you want to be like and your personality and preferences.

If you have 'honest hardworking working class' parents who get rich through working hard and manage to send you to a private school where you mix with middle class people and go to university and then join a profession, you will be moving 'up' the classes.

However, you may have middle class parents who are down on their luck and you attend the local comp where you do your best to fit in with the local kids, adopting their accent and ending up in a more 'local' type job, in which case you will have moved 'down'. On the other hand if you are of a personality where you don't care about fitting in you might remain more similar to your parents.

I don't think you can escape your class completely but over more generations is likely to be movement.

People from one class are not better than another though. There may be certain things associated with the different classes but there are pro's and cons. It's an interesting thing to think about, and is certainly relevant in society. More through the effects of accent and manners than through creativity I would have said! Strong local accent = WC whereas other things can be very variable.

And class is nothing to do with how nice or caring or good parents people are. Class is more a cultural thing rather than a moral thing.

It does pain me to talk about it, especially because I spent a good 20 years of adult life, trying hard to help others, because I wanted to show so much that I was different to my family. This inevitably leads to people taking the piss. Even now, I'm due some money, I'm thinking not how to spend it on me, but firstly a few treats for my DC, then helping out others. Thus the post natal basket for my friend. I would go as far as to say it's scarred me, more so because I see my siblings getting worshipped, my existence is ignored. I guess it leaves you wanting to make up for the people who don't want to accept you.

I rarely converse with my maternal side, but thought this Sunday I'd be the better person, wished my Mother a Happy Mothers Day, thanked her for the sacrifices she made, apologised if I was in any way a disappointment, told her I loved her. The way in which I'm a disappointment is I worked till it was physically impossible and unviable for the business. That isn't and wasn't a choice. In a dream world I wouldn't have limitations, in a dream world I'd have a PhD and be making a difference. I've tried so hard, but even universities struggle to accommodate those who are severely disabled. Even though I was on track to getting a first. In a dream world I would have to be able to study at Oxford or Cambridge, but I was ill growing up, my personal experiences haunted me, I didn't try as hard as I should for my exams as a teenager, as I was struggling so much.

I'd love to say I've made a difference, ok I've made a short term difference in people's lives, but most abandon you when the money runs out. They then hold you with some sort of contempt that you can't do what you did before.

It is really hard, I personally struggle with it a lot. I wish I could do more. When I think about 'What if I won the lottery' my initial focus isn't on things like getting a mansion, fancy car, it's getting my children a decent education and supporting others in a variety of ways. I don't seek recognition, eternal gratitude, merely that I've done what I could.

You sound chippy as fuck

A propos of nothing, has anyone ever read O Caledonia! by Elspeth Barker?

The class system isn't just a British thing but Brits do have a particularly tenacious grip on it still. The fact that people still care what class they/other people are in is just crazy, though I certainly went through the teenage phase of identifying as Working Class despite my Middle Class upbringing

My parents "bettered" themselves and I lowered myself so I evened my family out