Legacy - Martin McGuinness

[FairytalesAreBullshit]

I was listening to Tony Blair and his thoughts on Martin McGuinness, who died yesterday after suffering from cancer I believe. Tony Blair focussed on the triumphs of the peace process, the hard work he put in for over 20 years to achieve peace, plus bringing people together.

Sky chose an alternative way to report his death, with the daughter of her 72 year old mother caught up in the Warrington bombings. The presenter wanted it to be as emotive as possible, they were a few steps away from saying he should burn in hell.

Others chose to show a gathering in West Belfast and other places, including Scotland, where people came out to pay their respects.

It's had me thinking all day, if a person does bad, then dedicates their life to doing good. What should their legacy be?

He worked until a few months before his death, which shows that he wanted to fight on right to the end. I know his departure prompted another election, as there were things that he felt were being ignored like using the Irish language to name one. (Sorry I'm a politics and economics geek)

I grew up during the time prior to the peace process, so know what happened from what was reported on TV and in papers. My parents were strict about where we could go in fear of us getting caught up in something.

Personally Im more disgusted that on a day where more innocents have lost their lives to terrorists that anyone would have the gall to come on here and defend murdering scum like Mcguinness.

Disgraceful.

He was a murderer.
End.
Of.
Fucking.
Story.

I'll always remember the newspapers covering the murder by the IRA of the Queen's uncle and other members of his family. Children were murdered whilst on their summer holidays - those children had not done anything wrong and the IRA murdered them.

TeamLannister - you are right he was an important person but for only dreadful reasons.

I acknowledge their contribution Tulip but really they are a footnote in history compared to the monumental change that Martin McGuinness helped to bring about.
I respect him immensely.

The disapeared

As someone affected by the violence and shameful acts carried out by and or sanctioned by Martin mcguinness IRA leader he has so much blood on his hands! Shameful! His legacy to me will always be as a terrorist. Apt that this post is on here today when innocent people in London were attacked by terrorists only just this afternoon

McGuinness was not alone. The Troubles created an entire terrorist class in NI and a MMG shaped vacuum. If it hadn't been him, it would have been someone else. And no, not everyone became a terrorist, but enough did for us to pay attention to the conditions that caused this to happen, so that it doesn't happen again.

willyou it's a public forum, surprise surprise not everyone agrees with you..... get a grip!
I can see how this thread is going, lots of people who know nothing of the struggle here pile in with the British media view.... Educate yourselves!

How the fuck can anyone say that they respect a mass murderer. Of innocent children too no less. The pain that evil man caused...

What absolute lack of moral compass.

Utter disgrace.

Poppet i lost family in the troubles

Educate yourself. Clearly needed.

I agree with those who are saying the good and the bad is all his legacy, and that we should be able to remember being as something other than a "goodie" or a "baddie" in the narrative of history.

I wonder about those who are condemning him outright as a murderer etc. Saying "there's never an excuse" etc. I didn't know there were so many pacifists about.

He amongst others has worked hard for peace here in NI. However, upon hearing of his death I could not help thinking of the widow and family of Patrick Gillespie, who never got to say goodbye to their husband and father. His story and others like it, together with the fact that Martin McGuinness remains unrepentant, describing Mr Gillespie as "a legitimate target of war" will be McGuinness' lifetime legacy for many, despite what he has helped to achieve in recent years.

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist and thankfully Martin is now my favourite kind of the latter.

Dead.

If people didn't mind, I think it would be interesting to know your views/experiences of living during that time, as it was never really reported, books are a persons viewpoint, so a collection of viewpoints from those who lived in NI during that time would be useful, I don't think experiences and relevant history should be lost. If not here but maybe on the history section.

Lots of people seem think there's black and white with nothing in between. Which is why I wondered about how you view someone's legacy upon death.

Whilst everybody speculates what he was responsible for, does anyone know the facts. Someone above stated that initially he was involved in some way, but then changed to be a different kind of figure.

One thing that struck me during looking at the subject, until I looked into it further, I didn't know about the Catholics that were killed by Protestants. I didn't know much at all about the history. Little or nothing about how Ireland was part of the British Empire, giving context and further background history. One book that was hard to get into stated that the organisation we all know so well started in about the 1920's.

Terrorism is abhorrent, killing people is abhorrent, the Civil Rights movement in the US was all about peace. Achieving their goals through peaceful means.

I do think with this subject there's a lot we don't know. I don't want to label a person as something, when it's not fully known.

I watched a documentary about Derry and something that has reopened after a refurb. It talked about how they took a song from the Black Civil Rights campaign in the US. How two places thousands of miles apart share unity in their experiences, but it was presented like people knew what the experiences were. Not all of us do.

British soldiers in NI were also murderers. I know, they murdered my uncle. He was marching in Derry for civil rights. Shot in cold blood. Of course.

Martin McGuinness was no saint but he changed and contributed to something great....whereas the British soldiers who murdered my family and my community skulked away and NO ONE gives a damn!!

Interesting thread. for the first time ever I found myself agreeing with Norman Tebbit, he said the world is a sweeter place without McGuinness, and that he thinks that McGuinness cynically sued for peace when he realised that the tide was turning against the IRA.

I wonder how many people genuinely believe that all IRA weaponry was decommissioned ?

Interesting - if even on here the idea someone's perspective is different to your own can trigger such venom and distain, small wonder that the powder keg of living in the inner cities of segregated Northern Ireland in the 60's and 70's could lead to violence, terror and murder by both sides.

People disagree, people have different perspectives and different backgrounds that shape those perspectives. One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. It often takes the distance of history to enable the truth to emerge.

I would rather people remember the families of those who he murdered at Enniskillen, in Derry, Warrington, Manchester and many other places.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2883290-Martin-McGuinness-is-dead this thread was started yesterday - you might want a read FairytalesAreBullshit

I have lost people too willyou but I didn't hear anyone condemn the British army for the killing of innocents.... children killed by plastic bullets, killed in cold blood on the streets of their own city.
No justice for them, they're an inconvenient truth.
Save you self righteous blustering for someone that cares.
Hiding this thread now!!

I've got johnny Adair living down the road from me. He turned from terrirism to drug dealing. He was on the "dominant"side too.

I dunno, I can't help but think at least Mm turned to positive action. Although that story about the disabled brother up there is appalling.

I'll be honest, I'm west coast Scotland and I have friends who grew up catholic in ni in 60/70/80s and the stories they can tell of their and their families treatment at the hands of authorities are appalling.

Then two wrongs don't make a right...

Can I be in agreement with his achievement without being in agreement with his methods?

As someone who helped plant bombs indiscriminately in both Ireland and the Uk, not caring that a lot of the victims were innocent men, women and children, both catholic and Protestant, how can anyone describe him as a freedom fighter? If he was remorseful for what he had been involved in, he would at least have put right some of the wrongs by revealing the resting places to the grieving families of those he'd murdered, but he never did. He was no better than the terrorist who was shot dead in a London today. There are two less terrorists out there today, and the world is a better place for it.

Adair is another scumbag

Poppet please don't go!!! People in England like to share stories of how they 'survived ' IRA attacks...in reality, they were few and far between!! Whereas we in NI lived through attacks EVERY DAY!!! Not least from British soldiers.

Poppet I condemn the murderers on both sides. Both as bad as each other with the grief they caused.

Self rightgeous blustering? What a delightful way to describe a bereaved family and today of all days.

Such lack of empathy reflects so poorly on you.