To think that DSS isn't being a bully

[Mrbluethecatt]

So there is a bit of backstory.

My DSS is 13. His DM died when he was less than a year old. He is in 2nd year at secondary school.

Last year another boy A started bullying DSS. It started low level making fun of him, taking DSS's stuff, it escalated to A saying things about DSS'S DM and eventually A punching DSS in school. A was suspended for 2 weeks after the punch. This happened last may. A has a history of bullying other kids and has been suspended for kicking a girl a few weeks into starting secondary.

Since September A has stopped bullying DSS. After the punch DSS spoke to his guidance counselor who agreed DSS should try to deflect and avoid A if DSS feels threatened in class and tell the teacher.

Since September DSS has formed a great friendship with a bunch of kids (boys and girls) who he hangs with a play and lunch and is in a number of lunchtime clubs. As they are school based clubs A is in one of the clubs.

If A come to speak to DSS, DSS gives yes no answers and usually walks away. He doesn't want to interact with A and only does the minimum. At lunch club today that A also goes to A sat next to DSS so DSS got up and moved to another seat. It was Minecraft club so they played at lunch and some of DSS's friends play online after school with DSS. A asked to join. DSS didn't say no. He said nothing it was another girl that said no.

I got a call from school saying that A's mum has reported DSS for bullying and excluding A in school. I am meeting school tomorrow.

Aibu to think DSS isn't bullying A and while A is being excluded it isn't DSS's fault.

[PictureTools]

He is trying to intimidate him!

There's been nothing said to indicate that this is A's intention. The way DSS is dealing with it suggests that (happily) he is not intimidated by A and in fact has the upper hand.

So if "Bob" told you that he no longer wanted to be part of Andrew's team, because Andrew punched him...

Well, Andrew would be fired and my company could be in serious trouble for not firing him. I think you also missed the extra 'not' in Andrew's post. He was talking about not wanting to work with someone who had not punched him. He just didn't like him. Besides which, there is a difference between adults and children.

From what has been said other of As victims are refusing him to join groups parties etc not just ds

But it's DSS who is making a point of excluding A when he simply comes to where a group of children are.

If he doesnt want to socialise with this vicious bully then he doesn't have to.

He's actively and/or passively excluding A. There's a difference between not doing this and socialising with a "vicious bully".

I am still not trying to suggest DSS was not the victim or that A wasn't a bully or that A's previous behaviour should be forgotten, simply that the tiniest bit of compassion could make a big difference in this situation.

It's sad how so many posters think A should be written off, ostracised, excluded and have their life made a misery. A is a child! What kind of adult are they likely to become if DSS's example is continued and followed by their peers?

[PictureTools]

^accidental name change.

[Toadinthehole]

I think there is something very wrong with the notion that a person - be they adult or child - bullies simply by refusing to cultivate a friendship.

Taking steps to exclude a person is quite another matter as it involves deliberately making another person's situation worse. But in my view, it's very oppressive and counter-productive to make a person socialise with another person they have good reason not to like, and to accuse a person that refuses to do so of bullying seems to me, well, a form of bullying itself.

[PictureTools]

I'll stick with 'picturetools' now.

Taking steps to exclude a person is quite another matter as it involves deliberately making another person's situation worse.

Isn't the DSS literally taking steps to exclude A. He's walking away and his peers are following. As someone suggested and I agreed, a simple 'hello' and nothing more could make a big difference and it's a huge stretch to call that "cultivating a friendship" or "socialising" with A.

[SoupDragon]

Ignoring, excluding and blanking someone is a form of bullying

Yes. So on the one hand you have a boy who is deliberately having just minimal interaction with a boy who has bullied him in the past andonthe other you have a boy who is disliked by over half the class and has told his mother he is being deliberately excluded by another boy.

Of course the OPs DSS shouldn't have to be friends with the boy who bullied him but I wonder if it has gone too far the other way - difficult to say. That is not to say he is bullying or that it is his fault - they are both only 13 and the fine line of social interactions is hard to walk correctly at all times!

The other boy might have changed as he has grown up over the last year and be trying to make amends. Or he may be being manipulative.

The school have to follow the complaint up though and a meeting at the school should clear it up.

[Toadinthehole]

Picture,

On the basis of what the OP has said I absolutely don't agree that her DSS has passively or actively excluded A.

In fact I'm really not sure what you then he's excluded A from. Social groups? No evidence of that, although sometime else has. His own company or friendship? I think it's unfair of him to provide that.

All he's done is keep away, which ought to be anyone's right.

I would be hopping mad if my DDs were told by their school that they had to socialise and spend time with someone they might be scared of, who might be violent towards them. Just what sort of message would that send?

[Toadinthehole]

Cross-post.

If DSS walks away and his friends follow from their own choice, so what?

[flippinada]

I agree Toad.

Not wanting to be friendly with someone is not bullying. If DSS doesn't want to associate with this boy, he doesn't have to. And forgiveness is his decision, nobody else's.

[Falafelings]

It's perfectly acceptable not to want to befriend someone who bullied you very badly.

I think the bully is throwing his weight around again (via his mum) to get his own way.

Forgiveness takes time. The bully needs to prove himself trustworthy of friendship with his peers. This could take years. It might not ever happen. the bully might be better moving year groups.

[PictureTools]

In fact I'm really not sure what you then he's excluded A from. Social groups?

Yes, social groups. The OP said that her son usually walks away.

If DSS walks away and his friends follow from their own choice, so what?

Are you saying this because of A's past actions? You wouldn't be saying that if every time your (non-bullying) child approached a group they walked away and wouldn't talk to him.

As I've kept saying (and don't really have more to add), I think a simple 'hello' and staying put wouldn't take much from DSS and could help A. Children who bully need help too. They tend to be victims of something themselves even if it's low self esteem or lack of social awareness.

And, one more time... a is a child and so is DSS. This is a learning opportunity for both of them. Not telling DSS to forgive A, but explaining what the more mature and bigger person could do.

[Falafelings]

The other boy may have changed but he has to prove he has changed. This takes time and will not be a quick fix.

[Mrbluethecatt]

Back from meeting with school.

A's mum thinks that as A apologised last year it was sorted and forgotten about. A now wants to be DSS's friend and as DSS doesn't want to be A's friend this is bullying.

DSS's guidance teacher said that DSS doesn't have to be his friend and no wanting to isn't in itself bullying.

All the while A's mum was talking A was smirking and rolling his eyes. I pointed this out to the HT as an example as why DSS doesn't want to be his friend. A's mum though i was wrong to point it out.

Long story short - HT agrees DS isn't bullying and is following teacher advise to avoid A if he feels unsafe. Which is anytime A is near him. A's mum wants DSS moved instead of A, as DSS in her mind is not moving on. I told HT there was no way this was happening. HT agreed. Me and DSS then left the meeting.

I'll be emailing guidance counselor and HT my notes of the meeting for the record.

[differentnameforthis]

As I've kept saying (and don't really have more to add), I think a simple 'hello' and staying put wouldn't take much from DSS and could help A Why should he "stay put"? Perhaps he is worried that he will get punched again, or mocked about his mum.

Perhaps he just can't be arsed with negative people in his life

It is not up to a victim to "help" their abuser.

[PictureTools]

"I pointed this out to the HT"

You sound a little smug.

Glad you showed that 13 year old who's boss.

[PictureTools]

abuser

He was an 11 year old bully, not an abuser.

[differentnameforthis]

So now his mum is allowing him to bully your dss into be his friend, or she wants YOUR dss moved from his friends etc...No, I don't think so.

But you can see why the lad is a bully, can't you!

I think just proves that this lad wants to cause as much agro as he can for your dss, and I would be strongly suggesting that the HT take proper steps to sort this out.

[neonrainbow]

You really think this 13 year old doesn't know exactly what he's doing by getting mummy involved?

Op didn't sound smug to me.

[Groovee]

Sounds like A has his mother wrapped round his little finger.

Eye rolling is a massive bug bear of mine.

[differentnameforthis]

Picture, what are you trying to achieve here? He is a nasty little boy, who thought he could manipulate the op's dss into being his friend after saying vile things to him, and punching him.

The op was right to point out his behaviour to the HT, he was acting bored with a "I couldn't give a damn about what you have to say, just give me my victim back". , Which shows a lack of respect for everyone in the room.

You do not have to forgive just because someone "changes".

[differentnameforthis]

Oh & poster, when someone has a history of bullying, saying vile things to people, and punching and kicking - at 12/13, by the way..I will bloody well call him what he is...and abuser!!!

[PictureTools]

Picture, what are you trying to achieve here? He is a nasty little boy

I am suggesting that he should be treated like a boy. A child.

I think compassion is a wonderful thing and something DSS could have been encouraged to show.

[GrapesAreMyJam]

Did A show DSS any compassion when his mum died?
DSS is doing nothing wrong by not wanting to interact with someone who bullied him.
A is old enough to now that's not how you treat people.

[GrapesAreMyJam]

Know*

[GrapesAreMyJam]

When he found out his mum had died*

Dear god, I'm not with it today!

[Taylor22]

Well done OP. Ensure your DS knows he doesn't have to do anything for A. You will back him in every single aspect.

Boohoo a 13 year old vile douche has realised he doesn't have control over others.

Better he learn this now rather then when he's an adult and doing it to a girlfriend or colleges.

This is exactly what people have been campaigning for. The victims realising they are the ones with the power.
Please tell your DS that some random stranger on the internet is so proud of him.
He's stood up for himself and set an amazing example.
I hope he tells everyone in his class what happened so they to can realise they don't have to have anything to do with A.