To think that DSS isn't being a bully

[Mrbluethecatt]

So there is a bit of backstory.

My DSS is 13. His DM died when he was less than a year old. He is in 2nd year at secondary school.

Last year another boy A started bullying DSS. It started low level making fun of him, taking DSS's stuff, it escalated to A saying things about DSS'S DM and eventually A punching DSS in school. A was suspended for 2 weeks after the punch. This happened last may. A has a history of bullying other kids and has been suspended for kicking a girl a few weeks into starting secondary.

Since September A has stopped bullying DSS. After the punch DSS spoke to his guidance counselor who agreed DSS should try to deflect and avoid A if DSS feels threatened in class and tell the teacher.

Since September DSS has formed a great friendship with a bunch of kids (boys and girls) who he hangs with a play and lunch and is in a number of lunchtime clubs. As they are school based clubs A is in one of the clubs.

If A come to speak to DSS, DSS gives yes no answers and usually walks away. He doesn't want to interact with A and only does the minimum. At lunch club today that A also goes to A sat next to DSS so DSS got up and moved to another seat. It was Minecraft club so they played at lunch and some of DSS's friends play online after school with DSS. A asked to join. DSS didn't say no. He said nothing it was another girl that said no.

I got a call from school saying that A's mum has reported DSS for bullying and excluding A in school. I am meeting school tomorrow.

Aibu to think DSS isn't bullying A and while A is being excluded it isn't DSS's fault.

[HardcoreLadyType]

Ignoring, excluding and blanking someone is a form of bullying, so you need to tread carefully to show that this is not what is happening.

For A, in the past, he had a situation where he could do something to your DSS to promote the reaction he wanted. Your DSS is now denying him that reaction, and that is what he craves. He is not trying to be friends with your DSS; he is trying to get his plaything back.

As others have said, no one would insist that an adult become friends with someone who had treated them so badly. Your DSS is civil to this boy, and that is all he really has a responsibility to be.

[KateDaniels2]

eman do you tell someone who is emotionally abused to forgive and forget and try to make the other person feel better too?

Actually the school wont think the OP is an idiot for using the word harrasing. Thats whats happening. Ops dss has a right to choose who he interacts with. He isnt encouraging others to not be friends with this boy. They are choosinf not to because of his own behaviour.

He is in secondary and above age of criminal responsibility. He is responsible for his own behaviour and the consequences of that behaviour.

[Megatherium]

You could reasonably point out that this complaint looks very much like A is manipulating his mother into helping him continue to bully DSS. There are presumably 28 or so other kids in the class, so the question has to be why he specifically wants to cosy up to A when anyone with any self-awareness would realise that it has to be solely up to the victim of bullying to decide whether he wants any sort of relationship with the bully.

[flippinada]

Yanbu and you're doing the right thing supporting your DS.

It sounds like this child is being excluded from groups due to his unpleasant behaviour, not because they're following DSS' lead.

And just to reiterate, no, there's no reason why he should forgive him. If at some point he decides to them great but it's not something that can or should be imposed on him.

[GiraffesAndButterflies]

TBH I think the previous bullying is a little bit of a red herring. Your DSS does not have to be friends with anyone. The risk of providing reasons is that the school / A's mum will try and disagree with them.

Now obviously all the backstory is very relevant, but as MN always says, no is a complete sentence. As in "do you want to be friends with A?" "No"!!

[GiraffesAndButterflies]

And fwiw I would say pestering rather than harassing.

[Falafelings]

Maybe the bully needs a fresh start in the different part of the school. The bully doesn't like reaping the fallout of his bullying

[neonrainbow]

No sympathy for the nasty little shit. Your dss sounds very mature and like a lovely boy.

[BlueFolly]

Of course he's not a bully! It's good that he has you to stand up for him.

[PeachyImpeachment]

YANBU - good luck in the meeting.

[bloodyfuming9]

It sounds as though your dss is being civil to A and doing what the school themselves suggested to him. ie to give A a wide berth.

In the light of this,, I would be very wary of attending any meeting with A's mum being present, as this implies that your DSS is somehow responsible for the predicament that A now finds himself in. Really, this a something the school need to help A with, without involving DSS.
I would ask to meet separately first with the Head Teacher to check that the problem is actually as you say it is, that DSS hasn't done anything out of order, and confirm that DSS is not inflaming the situation with A.

I would then suggest to the school that they meet with A and A's mother separately as the problem isn't actually DSS's, but is to do with the wider issue that the class don't (understandably) want much to do do with him.

[NanooCov]

This is a really tricky one. What A has done in the past is clearly awful and your DSS - as others have pointed out - does not have to be friends with him if he choses not to. He is also (on the face of it) following the guidance counsellor's recommendations by not engaging etc.

There may also very well be an ulterior motive held by A in terms of wanting to wheedle himself into the group to then cause problems.

But equally, it could be that he's finally twigged that his behaviour has alienated the rest of the class and he is almost friendless and lonely. While his apology at the time of the bullying was forced, he may feel genuine remorse for his actions.

And - as someone mentioned above - exclusion, blanking and ignoring IS very much a form of bullying. I suffered it myself in second year of high school - a concerted and organised bullying group of what I had considered friends - and it was awful.

I don't have any answers but I would say go to the meeting with an open mind. By all means defend and protect your DSS but be open to listening to what "the other side" has to say. It may be that the mother is acting out of her son coming home distraught every evening, feeling left out and not knowing what to do.

I personally think the comments that A is "a little shit", you reap what you sow, etc above are horribly vicious. I'm not excusing the boy's previous behaviour but he is just a boy after all and none of us are infallible.

[emanresudilavni]

eman do you tell someone who is emotionally abused to forgive and forget and try to make the other person feel better too?

I did today although I would call this bullying and not emotional abuse. It was much less than the DSS experienced but I absolutely treated the children like children and looked to resolve the situation.

It was between children. Yes, they may be above the age of criminal responsibility but children.

Actually the school wont think the OP is an idiot for using the word harrasing.

I'm basing my opinion on a successful, 25+ year career in education. A is not harassing or stalking and I would think 'idiot' if the OP said so. She clearly isn't an idiot and wants the best for DSS which is why I said I thought she should not follow that advice.

My only criticism (if that's the right word) of the OP is that this could be a time to help her son understand that people change, sometimes they deserve pity and sometimes a second chance. This is especially true of children. Her son is in a position of influence having his social circle and he could make a lot of difference to A's life simply by not instigating, as quoted below, what can be described as low level bullying.

There is no evidence whatsoever that A is playing the long game, trying to worm his way in to A's group to get at him again.

Ignoring, excluding and blanking someone is a form of bullying, so you need to tread carefully to show that this is not what is happening.

That is what's happening. Exactly what's happening.

[Andrewofgg]

I don't think that choosing not to interact with someone who has previously punched you is bullying.^

Nor is choosing not to interact with someone who has not previously punched you. At school as in the workplace you can restrict your interaction with any individual to what is unavoidable. I don't like all my colleagues so I don't chat to those I don't like; I just work properly with them when I need to.

When you meet the teacher concerned stand firm and say that your DSS will choose his own friends, thank you all the same.

[emanresudilavni]

At school as in the workplace

And that's where your idea starts to fall apart Andrew.

Nor is choosing not to interact with someone who has not previously punched you

They are children at school. You are an adult at work, besides which, if one of my staff said, "Andrew is a popular person person with influence over a circle of people here. Whenever I sit down and try to talk he ignores me and walks away or turns his back on me." I would call you into my office and tell you to grow the fuck up. My concern about your behaviour would extend beyond expecting the minimum of "working properly when you need to."

[Andrewofgg]

emanresuldilavni Of course there is a certain amount of interaction which is to be expected at school or in work. But you can't make people like each other or be friends. Suppose the HT tells the OP that her DSS must be that bit nicer to A? What then? DSS says Hello back and then says no more, or talks to somebody else, or waits for a chance to drift off. Is A's mother going to complain again?

These boys are 13, old enough to choose their friends without adult interference.

[WateryTart]

I would call you into my office and tell you to grow the fuck up. My concern about your behaviour would extend beyond expecting the minimum of "working properly when you need to."

And I would tell you to fuck off. You cannot force an adult to be comfortable in the presence of someone who punched him. Even more so a child. Your concern should be in protecting an employee from further harassment. Or you could find yourself in serious trouble.

[Spadequeen]

But punching a boy, telling him his mother killed herself to get away from him, kicking someone else in the stomach that's all ok?

I'm sorry, he may well have changed, but it is not the bullied children's responsibility to make him feel welcome. We're not talking about a group of 4 year olds here.

Why does he persist in sitting next to ops dss? If he were really sorry, he would leave him alone and stop pestering him.

the school should be talking to A's mother and together they should be helping him. It is not down to dss

Yes exclusion is a form of bullying, I've had it happen to me and it's horrible and really isolating, but this boy needs to understand that you don't get to punch and kick people (on top of everything else) say sorry and have everything forgotten and be welcomed.

[Unpropergrammer]

Agree with everyone else. Your dss shouldn't be friends with anyone he doesn't want to be friends with especially if he was assaulted.

[picklemepopcorn]

Eman to teach a child that he is not allowed to stay away from someone who has bullied him viciously about his dead mother, who has said she died to get away from him, and who has punched him is emotionally abusive. You are setting that child up for a lifetime of inability to protect himself from abuse.

Another group of children should reasonably be expected to give this child a chance. Not the ones he has physically and emotionally abused.

[emanresudilavni]

DSS says Hello back and then says no more, or talks to somebody else, or waits for a chance to drift off.

That would be a great first step. It gives a chance for A to show he's changed and doesn't take much from DSS.

Is A's mother going to complain again?

Well, if she did, she could be told that A replies with a 'hello'. He doesn't immediately leave with his friends. A's mother couldn't really ask for more.

WateryTart

I think you need to re-read Andrew's and my posts.

Nor is choosing not to interact with someone who has not previously punched you

Look at the negatives.

forgotten and be welcomed

This is not the same as simply not immediately leaving when A sits down. A has been a nasty bully. Does he never deserve a chance? I was 'sent to coventry' at school. It was the worst punishment I've ever received.

I'm not condoning A's behaviour. I think that DSS could show the tiniest bit of empathy, encouraged by his Mum.

[NanooCov]

Spadequeen - I don't think anyone has said A's behaviour was acceptable? Far from it. But he had the punishment of exclusion from school and the incident happened last May - its not like it was only last week and everybody is being asked to forgive and forget immediately. How much time needs to pass before A can be given another chance? Another year? The rest of his school career?

Maybe he continues to sit beside the OP's DSS looking for an opportunity to make amends?

[differentnameforthis]

He certainly is not bullying! He is avoiding his bully...good on him. Yes, ignoring, exclusion CAN be seen as bullying, but in this case dss has been advised by the schools' very own guidance counsellor to "deflect and avoid" A. So how the hell dss is bullying anyone is beyond me.

I would tell the school that finally the worm has turned and you will be encouraging dss to continue with what he is doing.

If bully doesn't like it, he should be told to use that to reflect on how dss would have been feeling when he was bullying him.

I think your DSS needs to learn to move on, this child sounds like he's turned over a new leaf and maybe a healthier attitude would be to forgive and forget. Would you advise that to adults in a work environment?

I think a little empathy and teaching DSS to forgive may be what's in order. A was suspended and dealt with appropriately by the school. Your SS, whilst on the receiving end of bullying in the past, is behaving quite unpleasantly and teaching him to be the bigger person seems to be the way forward. How dare you suggest that op's dss is behaving "quite unpleasantly" He most certainly is NOT!! He IS being the bigger person, he is ignoring his bully!

emanresudilavni he wasn't a bully "when he was a younger child" It was less than a year ago, and he IS harassing the op's dss, because he refuses to take no for an answer. He is trying to intimidate him!

You are an adult at work, besides which, if one of my staff said, "Andrew is a popular person with influence over a circle of people here. Whenever I sit down and try to talk he ignores me and walks away or turns his back on me." I would call you into my office and tell you to grow the fuck up. My concern about your behaviour would extend beyond expecting the minimum of "working properly when you need to." So if "Bob" told you that he no longer wanted to be part of Andrew's team, because Andrew punched him (severely enough for a disciplinary to take place) and mocked him over the death of his mother, would you STILL be encouraging Bob to "grow the fuck up" Something tells me that you wouldn't, and if you did your company could be in serious trouble for not taking complaints seriously.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I think a little empathy and teaching DSS to forgive may be what's in order

What happens when he does it again and again.

Judging by what has been written about A he has form for bullying, then later being sorry after he has been caught and punished then bullying the same person again.

How many times does the Ops ds have to forgive A

From what has been said other of As victims are refusing him to join groups parties etc not just ds

[neonrainbow]

It boils down to what the bullied child wants to do. If he doesnt want to socialise with this vicious bully then he doesn't have to.