To think BDSM type activities are a no-no for teens?

[Mumoftmtocount]

Just wondering everyone’s opinions on this. It’s not something I’ve experienced personally, but I’ve been reading a few posts on MN about BDSM. I’m not talking full on, whips, chains and d/s relationships BDSM but more the lighter S&M aspects - think spanking, choking, gagging etc. (So probably more rough sex than BDSM tbh)

Anyway, whilst personally I’m not into that, I don’t see a problem with grown adults incorporating it into their relationship. However, my question to MNetters is: would you raise a red flag at the thought of teenagers, so like 17-18 year olds, being spanked and choked etc by sexual partners of their own age?

Personally I find it shocking - I think those sexually adventurous years are yet to come and your teens should be for all the fumbling awkwardness of vanilla sex - but am I just an old prude? And would it indicate something psychologically wrong with youngsters who do it 'like that'?

I don't think it was Ok for that to happen to you at all.

I am also getting sick of this relativism whereby all sex of whatever kind, (and however influenced by the hate and misogyny filtering through the medium of porn) is so hallowed, that any idea of how one human should communicate with another lovingly and respectfully in a relationship - with sex as an extension of that - takes second place.

Let playful bondage come way down the line if it does.

mousse thanks for answering, very enlightening.

KindDogs BDSM should be all about communication, respect and boundaries. After the discussion comes the sex. The actions may seem controversial but they must be fully agreed first.
The conversation is more difficult for many people than the sex.

Thank you for explaining Mousse, I can understand what you mean I think.

But people would need to respect another's boundaries in the first place and develop trust with each other first to get that right. The OP's experience, as she related it, suggests there was no respect for her boundaries at all, and no choice for her.

The OP's experience was abuse.

Real BDSM means saying I want this and this but not that. Most sexual relationships would find this level of openness and honesty difficult. Done properly it is very respectful.
However, watching a film and experimenting cos you fancy it can lead to abuse. But any sex can lead to abuse.

VV, it might as easily be the other way round though - man consenting to woman doing XYZ.

No, it might not.

I did some research for a fanfic that mocked Fifty Shades of Grey once, and there are much, much more dominant men than women, and almost all women in the "scene" are submissive, even those who will dominate sometimes.

The rare female doms are also quite unhappy with many male subs trying to dictate what they should wear, etc.

So I can make an educated guess on who is going to have the violence done to them if a couple of teenagers decide to spice up their sex life.

(By the way, I have it on authority of a nurse who does BDSM that choking people is never safe. Perhaps other forms of "breathplay" can be safe, but putting your hands around someone's neck never is. Something to do with anatomy that I can't explain now.)

Hi all,

Gosh, thanks for the replies. MNHQ replied saying that they didn't see a problem with the thread but could see why I wanted it down - so I don't think it's going to get removed and like Divers said it actually has gone a different way to what I thought it would & ended up being quite interesting discussion.

I'm glad I'm not alone in being the only teen who participated in such activities. I find it interesting to see the opposing views over what people think - if it is abuse or not. Personally, I think it definitely left lasting effects on me. But abuse? Like I said, it was fully consensual. Whether I'd have consented to that now is a whole other kettle of fish, but because my views have changed now doesn't mean it is abuse then (imo).

I've done some reading on BDSM over the past couple of days and I've come across several people saying that things like choking, spanking etc counts as assault if it leaves marks - dont know the facts behind though.

Thanks for all replies so far, MNetters. Really appreciate a lot, and if anyone wishes this to be removed I will message MNHQ back and ask them to take it down! Xx

The English case law is quite interesting on the subject. In the Max M case the newspaper (who was unlawfully disclosing aspects of his private life - he liked to be whipped etc) tried to argue the whipping was illegal as it was so forceful he could not consent to it as a matter of English law - marks were left. The court did not agree in that case and said his privacy rights had been breached. However it remains the law in England that some force is so strong you cannot consent even if you want to in this country. Just like if you play rugby you consent to being shoved around but not to excessive force.

Always check the laws of any country you go to before doing anything sexual there at all as they differ widely.

The idea of consent.
Like I said, it was fully consensual.
There was an extremely interesting discussion this morning on Radio 4 by Helena Kennedy on the subject of consent in general. It was fascinating to realise how little consent in the sense of informed consent there really is. (I see I missed the first, and what I heard was the second, but would recommend listening to these.)
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08hm9w2
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08jb0m6

Teenagers have unformed brains and not much idea of what they are ^consenting* to, especially the long term repercussions, in my opinion.

VestalVirgin

Your view is based on very little.

Being someone who actually knows somthing about the fet scene you are talking utter rubbish.
Alot of women have female subs! AND male subs are just as common especially when it comes to cuckold.
Your idea of bdsm and fet is limited which is fair enough it isnt for everyone but your lack of understanding is showing through.

Your idea of breath play is far from what it is. Its not as if silly amounts of pressure is applied. In fact alot of times breathing isnt restricted.
People on the fet scene tend to be far more respectful with sex then people who are not.
Although I do agree It can.be dangerous as some people (not just men can I add) could see dominance as just being a bully.

As iv said the fact these things are not taboo anymore can only be a good thing and certainly should be something discussed. I always had a very open relationship with my mum and ways felt I could ask her questions about anything and trust me I did.
My mum also had "the talk" with me again at 16 and covered all sorts of things bdsm included. So I had already been briefed on if I wanted to try it to ensure I was safe.
These talks didnt encourage me ... I mean she discussed plenty that I have and never would try .... but it certainly gave me a in site of being safe with sex ... more then make sure you use a condom haha.

Someone mentioned if school cover such things and I can 100% see why they do not but its up to us as parents to educate out children aswell.
It may be an awkward embarrassing conversation to have but we have a duty to educate our experimenting teens. They may blush and say "ewww" but that could be the difference between them safely exploring and not.

I always think the relationship I had with my mum was awesome. she taught me to be proud of my body and wised me up to stuff id otherwise of had no clue about.

Sorry that happened to you as your first experience OP, it doesn't sound properly consenting, in that you weren't fully aware what going to happen in advance/weren't in a position to articulate and set boundaries.

I think BDSM between fully aware, fully consenting and mutually/equally enthusiastic teens is fine. I do wonder if some teens are emotionally mature and experienced enough to do things like set and respect boundaries, although that goes for some older people too.

That said, there is some evidence that generally speaking, from a neurological stance, cognitive abilities reach full development at around 16, whilst emotional maturity (risk awareness, impulse control, ability to resist peer pressure, factoring in long-term consequences, propensity to discount thrill seeking) doesn't fully develop until about 22. So it's possible to see how people in that age group might struggle with the degree of self-regulation needed to safely handle BDSM situations in practice. Bit like higher insurance premiums for younger drivers.

My most adventurous sexual relationships were those in my late teens/early twenties, after I had a couple of very vanilla relationships, I experimented a bit more to find out what I liked and didn't like. But turned out I liked vanilla best anyway.

Consent is a fascinating area in all areas of law.

On this specific one the interesting point is you CANNOT in law consent if the act is too extreme. It is a bit like law when if you ask your spouse of 50 years to kill you as you are very very ill and cannot quite do it yourself that consent by you does not stop it being murder. So it is best to learn where the law draws its line.

It is similar with product liability - you cannot in English law in a contract exclude liability for death or injury caused by the product even if you agree to that in the contract (i.e. consent).

There are some creepy, creepy threads on MN.

I was in a BDSM relationship at 17. I researched extensively and all play was SSC. It was great and when it didn't suit me anymore I ended it. I'm pleased I got the exposure early on.

To be clear BDSM has long been removed from the DSM. So rest assured.

But let's be clear on a few things in the OP's list.

spanking, choking, gagging etc. (So probably more rough sex than BDSM tbh)

Choking is very clearly on what is considered 'Edgeplay'. It's a dangerous activity that needs to be learnt and fully understood before it's practised.

TheElephantofSurprise you see your comment is what makes me about MN. 75% of women self-identify as submissive. Less than 4% as Dominant. The rest switch or are kinksters.

This is a very clear issue and it's one that simply saying 'creepy' is actually hindering women exploring their sexuality and already building on a sense of shame.

My first experiences with BDSM were as teen. And they were fun and exciting and turned me on like vanilla never had. This is still the case 20+ years later. I wasn't abused as a child, I don't have any deep seated psychological issues around it. I just enjoy a bit of variety in my sex life.

I am also not submissive btw. I identify as a switch, and have been a domme for men and women. I've never had my male subs argue with me about clothes etc, btw, VestalVirgin or try and tell me what I should do. The power has been entirely mine.

To answer the OP's original issue, is bdsm a no-no for teenagers.

A grey area to be assured. If we are saying post 16, then as a parent, the law says you cannot stop them.

If they are say 15 ish, then, how exactly would you police that, if that is your intention? There is nothing abnormal or psychologically wrong about BDSM. However, you have right to be concerned if you feel your child is being exposed to a predator.

It is complex. But once a teenager starts having sex, there is very little a parent can do about the mechanics of what they actually get up to in the bedroom. Unless of course, there is notable difference in age. In which case, it is rape anyway.

PM me if you need support OP.

vestalvirgin I did some research for a fanfic that mocked Fifty Shades of Grey once, and there are much, much more dominant men than women, and almost all women in the "scene" are submissive, even those who will dominate sometimes.

Absolutely true.

The rare female doms are also quite unhappy with many male subs trying to dictate what they should wear, etc.

Oh goodness, if that was the least of their worries! Real female Doms are constantly targeted as 'fetish dispensers'

So I can make an educated guess on who is going to have the violence done to them if a couple of teenagers decide to spice up their sex life.

No, no and thrice no. Just as a=b, it does not mean that a = c at that age.

Experimentation in the young is the order of the game. It can take years for those ideas to get set in stone. It's very much more likely that the teenage years are just experimentation. It is very unlikely that a young boy and girl together would know, or even understand what power exchange is in the fullest sense of the word. In any case, when I do happen across girls of say 18/19 who are submitting in a true power exchange relationship, I wonder if they have been sexually abused by an older Dom.

(By the way, I have it on authority of a nurse who does BDSM that choking people is never safe. Perhaps other forms of "breathplay" can be safe, but putting your hands around someone's neck never is. Something to do with anatomy that I can't explain now.)

IME (which is as someone who enjoys consensual breath play on many occasions with different partners) it can be safe but you do need to be able to trust your Dom. But, at the end of the day, that is in essence part of the kink itself.

Yuk.

Tony I would be terrified if my sons even had sex before marriage. fortunately they are both clean.

Clean?

I respect your view on sex before marriage (have friends who have waited and can see the pros) but bringing up DC with that message alone can lead to problems. I know I'm not the only one here who got a confusing message about consent due to this. It makes all sex before marriage taboo, so once you've crossed the line and had vanilla sex it seems anything goes.

I experimented with various BDSM practices from 16 onwards, in a committed relationship with another teen, and never felt like it was wrong - it was just what we enjoyed. I think acting as though teenagers' sexual (and emotional) desires are somehow lesser or should be restrained is actually quite damaging. We should be encouraging safety and consent at any age and any 'level' of kink, not keeping all the fun stuff til you're older. Once you know how to have safe and consensual sex then it doesn't matter how extreme the kink!

Having said that, what happened to you is completely different - and I'm so sorry that you went through it.

TonyConrad seems to be going around bumping certain threads...

Bit of a zombie isn't it?