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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think you don't need an apprenticeship to work as a minimum wage fast food server

30 replies

DickToPhone · 18/03/2017 01:25

www.findapprenticeship.service.gov.uk/apprenticeship/-45070

14-month (!) apprenticeship to learn how to make sandwiches for Subway.

And there's me thinking the whole point of fast food places is that you don't need a 14-month apprenticeship.

AIBU to think these fuckers are just dodging the minimum wage law by claiming you will somehow be more employable after doing this slave labour for 14 months?

OP posts:
Original poster
DickToPhone · 18/03/2017 01:26

sorry, the wage is £3.40/hour for a 35 hour week

OP posts:
DJBaggySmalls · 18/03/2017 01:29

Thats disgusting.

GoodnightSeattle · 18/03/2017 01:29

I thought the point of an apprenticeship was you got paid whilst you earn qualifications? The job is just the vehicle through which you demonstrate the skills you've learned in order to get those qualifications, the job isn't necessarily the focus.

So you're not spending 14 months learning to make sandwiches, you're learning food hygiene, customer service, perhaps finance elements, managerial skills, business theory etc.

SusanneLinder · 18/03/2017 01:44

I don't know about Subway, but I can tell you that my son in law worked for Maccy dos when he was a student. He did their training programme including management training. When he graduated he got a job with a Top Accountancy Firm in the UK, beating off 200 other graduates. Why? Because he worked for Maccydos as a student as their Management training programme is fantastic apparently. True story, and who would have thought it.
So dont diss fast food restaurants.

Out2pasture · 18/03/2017 01:44

sounds unreasonable. Is sandwich artist even listed as an apprentiship?
Where I live there is a below minimum wage for first time workers during their first 500 hrs of employment....guess what after 500 hrs most loose their hours and another first time worker gets a job.

Salmotrutta · 18/03/2017 01:55

I'm old enough to remember the traditional style apprenticeships.

This was when 16 year olds (and in my parents day 14 year olds) got taken on to do apprenticeships, "served their time" as apprentices and earned a low wage whilst doing a full days work with "Day Release" at college to earn their City and Guilds Certificate.

It was understood back then that an apprentice was pretty useless until they had learned at least the basics so their wage was reflective of that - as they progressed through the ladder their wage increased.
It was hard going but if they stuck in to the job they ended up as a fully qualified tradesperson on a decent wage.

The system did actually work back then because generations of my family learned trades in the old way and became time-served tradespersons who could always get work.

Salmotrutta · 18/03/2017 01:58

I should point out that I come from a line of blacksmiths, farriers, welders, shepherds, agricultural workers, engineers and fabricators.

I don't know about sandwiches.

Original poster
DickToPhone · 18/03/2017 02:28

"I don't know about Subway, but I can tell you that my son in law worked for Maccy dos when he was a student. He did their training programme including management training. When he graduated he got a job with a Top Accountancy Firm in the UK, beating off 200 other graduates. Why? Because he worked for Maccydos as a student as their Management training programme is fantastic apparently. True story, and who would have thought it.
So dont diss fast food restaurants."

I wasn't. I remember in my first job (professional) seeing that McDonalds were advertising for young people to become managers. The pay was £25k. I was earning £17k.

Nowt wrong with that.

But that's not what Subway are offering here. Not even close.

OP posts:
Original poster
DickToPhone · 18/03/2017 02:29

At least in theory an apprenticeship is a good idea. Things like car mechanic, builder, etc., require a fairly long period of training.

Making sandwiches does not.

OP posts:
KoalaDownUnder · 18/03/2017 02:39

AIBU to think these fuckers are just dodging the minimum wage law by claiming you will somehow be more employable after doing this slave labour for 14 months?

YANBU. It's exactly what they're doing.

HelenaDove · 18/03/2017 02:46

£3.40 an hour. The 1990s are back then Hmm

highinthesky · 18/03/2017 03:15

Didn't Moobo try to pull a fast one similarly, and were forced to pay the national minimum wage? Except their "trial" scheme was for 40 hours without pay.

Being positive, perhaps the Subway scheme primes the apprentices for owning a franchised branch at the end of it? Which although isn't my thing, would be a very big deal for a teenager?

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 18/03/2017 04:07

It is an absolute disgrace and just an attempt to get round the minimum wage. A lot of companies do this and its shocking.

I believe the qualification gained is hospitality and catering NVQ.

But its still really really shit. I actually saw an advertisement once for an apprentice shelf stacker. I shit you not. God knows which NVQ that one was for...but its an utter pisstake and shouldn't be allowed. Apprenticeships should be in skilled work such as (for example) mechanics. I do think they are helpful for stuff like that. But not for companies just looking for cheap workers.

Haggischucker · 18/03/2017 06:18

Unfortunately this is not a new phenomenon, I've worked in apprenticeship sector for 11 years and subway have always had apprentices at this rate of pay as far back as I can remember.

In their defence the training is decent, they are pretty good to staff and they do (or did) increment the wages as the apprentice progressed.

Almost every other company I've known pay the apprenticeship wage because they can. I personally do not agree with the wage, especially in the 'unskilled' profession where within a week the learner could be operating at the same level as their peers.

I do agree that a lower wage is acceptable in the skilled area when the learner is learning their craft - professional cookery, butchery, fish monger, etc but still that the amount is too low for too long a term.

My opinions are not popular in my field as you can imagine Confused

Trifleorbust · 18/03/2017 06:28

A graduate or management training programme is totally different to this.

Allergictoironing · 18/03/2017 08:19

IF (and that's a big if) an employer does the apprenticeship properly it can be quite a big overhead to them.

We took on an admin apprentice last year and between showing him the ropes, overseeing and giving both specific and general feedback, time for his qualifications training plus me doing general admin training and support for his college work as well as specific job stuff, I reckon we got maybe as many days work out of him as he was costing us in my time.

Unfortunately in this case, the risk we took with taking on an untried school leaver didn't work out. Due to a mix of work ethic (or the lack of in his case), general slowness and what was either poor comprehension or just plain not listening, I ended up working longer hours checking the work & correcting the mistakes than I had before we took him on.

ghostyslovesheets · 18/03/2017 08:29

that's pretty shit isn't it? a 'level 2 diploma in food prep' that takes 14 months to complete - how valuable

also they want GCSE A-C in maths and English then say functional skills are part of the training - you don't need to do FS if you have a C+

bastards

topcat2014 · 18/03/2017 08:33

There is a world of difference between a McDonalds and some subway branch.

McD do actually come out well in surveys of large employers to work for.

The subway franchise is just ripping staff off.

Surely a mornings training watching someone else and you are good to go?

justaweeone · 18/03/2017 14:45

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pay-apprenticeship-levy

Emphasise · 18/03/2017 14:49

There must be good career opportunities at Subway, they must have a head of maintenance, marketing executives, accountant, h&s and HR professionals.

I dont know anything about thus particular apprenticeship but just because you start in a shop doesn't mean that's where you'll stay. I know someone who started flipping burgers for McDonald's and now earns six figures.

PaperdollCartoon · 18/03/2017 14:53

This is disgraceful. I am very pro apprenticeships but this isn't an apprenticeship, this is slave labour. People doing this would be doing the whole proper job, and not getting paid for it. Not the same as learning a trade on the job.

PinkCrystal · 18/03/2017 14:55

I did one of these schemes years ago as a care worker. I worked all week for a tiny amount and received no training whatsoever. It's a joke unless there are days set aside for proper qualifications.

Cheerybigbottom · 18/03/2017 15:01

It is disgraceful. If a 27 year old person with no experience at all in anything ( my youngest sister 😒) can be taken on at the 25yr old rate of minimum wage and do the exact same job as a 18 year old with no experience on apprenticeship wages it's just not fair. (Was also subway)

Often in the care sector you are taken on as an adult with no care skills at minimum wage but if you are under 25/21 they try and put you on apprenticeship. There's no need as both do the same training and are expected to do the same work and earn an NVQ. Then people think oh I can probably do better now I've got an NVQ2 but alas, min wage care jobs in retail/care etc can be advertised as MUST have NVQ2 in relevant sector. So it's worth nothing.

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