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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

£5 donation for head teacher to sign passport applications etc...

221 replies

NameChangeNotNewbie · 17/03/2017 10:35

Thoughts on this?

The money goes to the school fund. It says a donation, not a voluntary donation.

Does this seem reasonable or unreasonable?

OP posts:
hellejuice91 · 17/03/2017 20:34

This is reasonable. A Doctor would charge you £30.00

EnormousTiger · 17/03/2017 20:52

It's not just the time for me but the massive risks. Why would you bother to court getting sued, getting it wrong, the state investigating you as a signatory? It just seems pointless to put yourself in the firing line and I have been asked to verify people I don't know eg someone's spouse I've never met and no I won't. Why would I risk becoming a criminal and losing a career I will work in for 30 years for someone I never met? I really think if you can ever avoid signing the wretched things you should.

doublesnap · 17/03/2017 20:56

It's a good way for the head to find out who is going away on holiday! I think £5 is a good price, the GP,charges about £50.

WyfOfBathe · 17/03/2017 20:57

I've signed passports for friends and a colleague. None of my students have ever asked me, but I would probably refuse because it involves giving out personal details - I might do it for a trusted sixth former, I suppose. I imagine primary teachers get asked a lot more than secondary, so I don't blame them for charging.

BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou · 17/03/2017 21:43

At my last school the Head actually started refusing to sign passport applications. In one week we got three follow up letters from the passport office, each contained a grainy black and white photo of a child, no name given, she was expected to identify the child (all black African boys with close cropped hair), state which parent had completed the application, confirm that the rest of the form was completed before she signed it and on what date. Several times she had to endure long telephone follow ups and once was even called to the actual office for an interview. It is VERY time consuming.

At my current school the charge (and we call it a CHARGE although it goes to school funds) is £10 for any letter, form etc. that isn't part of school work.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/03/2017 09:46

I'm suggesting that if the school becomes too miserly then there might be less willingness to be generous towards said school

Except that - at least IME - the kind of parents who expect things like this are the least likely to help out in their turn. Granted they'll make a lot of noise about "us all helping each other" when they bring in the forms, but come the actual event, reading day or whatever ... tumbleweed Sad

Original poster
NameChangeNotNewbie · 18/03/2017 10:33

What about the volunteer parents who act as classroom assistants, though. They are effectively unpaid colleagues. Should they not be entitled to ask another colleague to help them out?

I can imagine it might smart somewhat if they gave 1 day a week per year (38ish days?) and the ht says, "20miniutes if my time...? That's £5 please!" I'd have to say I'd find myself a bit offended at that if I'd committed 190 hours of free labour over the year.

OP posts:
lljkk · 18/03/2017 11:24

"In the past it was ok to use your Doctor/GP to countersign your application. Due to high demand and complaints received from medical professionals you are now not able to use your registered doctor as a counter signatory (however if you have a friend or colleague who is a doctor this is still permitted)."

So GPs can't do it, unless they know you personally. I get impression, they were never supposed to do it unless they knew you individually. Not a single worker at our GP surgery would recognise any of us.

We had to get a passport type person to witness something the other day that both DH & I signed... the only person we could think to ask was one of the primary school teachers.

RaspberryOverloadsOnChilli · 18/03/2017 11:46

You only need a countersignatory for a first passport or DC under 12.

DS is 13, and we had to have a countersignatory.

QuiltingFlower · 18/03/2017 11:49

Perfectly reasonable

ginghamstarfish · 18/03/2017 11:53

Good idea, but surely a head teacher could use the correct English - a non-voluntary payment is a 'fee' or 'payment', and not a 'donation'.

EweAreHere · 18/03/2017 11:57

Great idea.

If they can afford passports for their children, implying international travel, they can afford the extra £5 donation to schools which are really struggling under the coming brutal budget cuts.

dementedpixie · 18/03/2017 12:07

A child over 11 only needs a countersignature if their appearance has changed drastically from the previous photo.

When you need someone else to sign your form and photo
You must get your form and one of your 2 photos signed if you’re applying for a:
• first adult passport
• first child passport
• replacement for a lost, stolen or damaged passport
• renewal of a passport for a child aged 11 or under
• renewal of a passport if your appearance has changed and you can’t be recognised from your existing passport

Aderyn2016 · 18/03/2017 12:11

My doctor won't sign at all. My dd's ht did it for us and I was very grateful - I literally don't know anyone who was deemed suitable by the passport office. Have lost touch with my old professional friends and hate asking favours of people I don't have a long history with or know very well.

What do you do if you literally know no one suitable who will do this for you? I can quite understand why people are reluctant - the passport office can make it a bit deal.

EnormousTiger · 18/03/2017 15:05

It is a really big problem for people. Even if you know loads of lawyers as friends and neighbours (as I do, I'm a lawyer) you have to put them out by asking. The principle is that someone who has standing in the community and is likely not to be a liar (eg not an ex con etc) and who knows the person verfies them and in the old days everyone in the village probably went to the local church and the vicar could vouch for them or whatever but it is much harder particularly for people who don't have friends in the right category of persons to sign. I feel it's very unfair on some people - they are left with asking their school or doctor - doctors are too busy healing people (fair enough) and I doubt schools have much time nor want to do it yet there is masses of passport fraud going on so we certainly need a much more thorough system. I don't know what the answer is.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 18/03/2017 15:50

What about the volunteer parents who act as classroom assistants, though. They are effectively unpaid colleagues. Should they not be entitled to ask another colleague to help them out?

I honestly don't imagine the idea was brought in for folk like this ... isn't it far more likely that it's meant for those who hardly ever turn up unless they want something?

There surely can't be many schools who haven't heard the old one about "Ooooo yes, I'll chip a fiver into the PTA for it", only for that fiver never to turn up ...

Tupperwarelid · 18/03/2017 17:23

£5 isn't much we ask for £10 at our school

Craigie · 18/03/2017 17:30

It's absolutely fine. Schools budgets are cut to the bone and the headteachers time is valuable.

maybeitssomethingelse · 18/03/2017 17:56

I read online that you don't need the photo undersigned any more, unless it's their first passport

pollymere · 18/03/2017 18:20

I asked my friend who's a teacher. Asking your GP or Head, I would expect them to charge you as it's a service rather than a favour. Any professional will do, there's a long list.

marhav999 · 18/03/2017 20:00

As an available professional I was inundated with passport application forms and had to introduce a fee (The man/woman who works for free is never idle) working on the assumption that if you are getting a passport it means you are going somewhere at a cost and certainly can afford to pay a modest fee. After all the airline, holiday company don't give you their service for free, why should a doctor/teacher etc, unless you already see them as free goods.

Cockadoodledooo · 18/03/2017 21:05

If it's a mandatory fee then technically it can't be a donation as that implies a gift
Perfectly reasonable to charge for time when it's not something that's not in your purview.

Cockadoodledooo · 18/03/2017 21:06

Argh. Damn the lack of edit facility! Perfectly reasonable to charge for time when it is something that's not in your purview.

Sara107 · 18/03/2017 21:39

Seems fair to me. The first time I had to get a passport application done in this country I was told my GP charged £30 ( this was about 14 years ago). I made an appointment and took time off work to go, only to be told that they had decided to stop signing all forms. I was really stuck to get anyone to do it as I hadn't been in the country long and didn't know any handy school principals or priests etc. Last time I got mine done, and dD's as well we asked the vicar and had to cope with a parish visit in the process. I would be delighted to just pay dD's head teacher a fiver and get it over and done with!

cherish123 · 18/03/2017 21:42

Fair enough. If you object, you could get any professional person you have known for 3 (I think) years. So that would be a lawyer, a teacher or lecturer, a doctor, dentist, vicar, accountant or engineer.

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