Large part NHS is going to be privatised what can we do?AIBU to think it's too late.

[Hidingmyindentity]

I'm a HCP at a meeting this week our medical director said the medium term plan is to privatise all routine stuff, all planned surgery e.g. Hip/knee replacement if you want this kind of surgery you will have to pay for it or get health insurance. The NHS has no choice because it's loosing money in these areas. I had guessed this was on the cards but I was shocked it was now being said out loud.
ED, seeing a GP, all acute life threatening stuff in medicine and surgery will stay in the NHS, as will emergency paediatrics oncology midwifery emergency mental health all the rest we will have to fund some how.
Much of mental health is already been privatised as is much of the community care for children and adults with very complex needs, e.g. Virgin do lots this care.
TBH I don't know if we can stop it most of the unions except the BMA (and we know what happened to them when they spoke out about what's going on) are toothless and useless. I am unconvinced that we can do anything now the NHS has I fear reached a point of no return. Very few HCPs want this but no one is listening to us speak out and the press treat us like scum.

The money is there. We can spend on brexit, trident, tax breaks for the rich.

The government are purposely underfunding so they can say X isn't working, we will give it to the private sector. This has ALREADY happened and has been going on for years. The bad press about the NHS is a part of it.

I don't think it can be stopped. By the time the general public realise what's going on it will be a done deal.

There are no pcts any more. Hospital treatment on the whole is funded by CCGs. What is funded and isn't funded is decided locally but I can't believe they are going ro stop funding all the stuff you listed - you are likely to be treated by a private provider.

help does everyone know it? I'm not sure they do TBH they hope or believe it's not that bad.
Why am I posting because the long term future for something I've believed in for the last 30 years is so terrible it really depresses me. People post about far more trivial things than this. Why can't I voice my fears.
Our medical director was basically saying this is where we going in the medium term our future strategy. Most of us were shocked it was being no talked about so openly.

March! Write to MPs! Sign petitions - I spent all day yesterday sorting local petitions and protest groups on a website for a charity I volunteer for regarding STP's and privatisation within the NHS.

It really is shocking. And not enough of the general public understand that if things carry on this way, in 10 years, the NHS will be unrecognisable. My generation don't. It's not front page news. But people will die. People are dying. 30000 extra last winter alone they reckon, due to this governments failings.

Make your voice known. Speak about it to your family and friends. The only way we can beat them is if we stand together. Tell them to leave the cutting to the surgeons and take their hands off our NHS.

Helpimitchy - there is nothing you can do. There is nothing I can do.

We do not really have the freedom we believe we have. We vote for governments who make and break promises. We accept lies on a daily basis. The people who hold the purse Strings are interested in themselves and no one else.

I agree Lurpack

Democracy is an illusion designed to keep the population under control. We have no power at all. They ignore petitions as well.

I sadly think the answer is to try and maintain your health as best you can, not have any children and try to migrate to another country.

The NHS will act as the private provider billing the CCG's the similiar as the private sector but the CCG' won't be able to afford these rates so they will then ration routine proceedures to only those who really need it you or possibly your GP will make a case for you to have the proceedure done if your unsuccessful you will have to self fund or go without. The NHS will certainly in the beginning still do most of the work because the private sector is not large enough or has enough people with the expertise to pick up this work although obviously this will pave the way for a massive expansion in the private sector.
Any "profit" the NHS makes from say a routine in and out no complication knee replacement will go towards funding emergency care.

Junior doctors marched and striked last year our press demonised them, told lies about them and public support was lost.
My friend said she read in the paper that Hospital consultants weren't supporting them this wasn't true nearly all the consultants in my trust supported them as did all other one I meet. The government said patients lives were being put at risk this wasn't true, the junior doctors work was being done by consultants in fact the patients were in safer hands. We were all laughing about it wards rounds with only consultants no waiting for senior reviews etc.
We believed in what they were doing.

With regards to companies like virgin taking charge if parts if nhs, our children's services has switched to Virgincare, and I can't say it has been great. Ds, who is 6 and disabled, has gone from seeing physio, ot, orthotics and paediatrics in one centre and SALT in school, to seeing the above in 3 centres, all of them 40-60 mins away by car (I don't drive and charity transport doesn't go this far).

At a recent appointment the therapist said she was overwhelmed because of the joining of 2 departments, meaning it would be 2-3 months before ds could be measured for splints, then another 2 months to come. Ds's splints are held together by gaffer tape and too small.

Ds's ASD referral has been lost in the changeover, and even his paed (the only professional to stay the same, at his insistence) doesn't know who to chase.

When the initial consultations were made, we voiced our fears, but were told there would be little change, therapists would stay the same, it would be a more coherent system.

Ds has lost therapists he had since birth, who know his complexities, and there seems to be a criteria of save first, see if it falls apart, then act.

Friends have had essential equipment denied or their children discharged out of the blue, others have left the area as they felt that the onus placed on 'how have you maximised saving?' Was becoming too much.

The combination of this, the chaos we have experienced at A+E, even the erosion of our pharmacy service has left me feeling even more terrified for the future for children like ds than usual.

I have written to our local mp (fobbed off with platitudes), been to the feedback meetings, voiced my anger - what else can we do? I am fucking knackered looking after my child (and my other children!)fighting for my child's education, and healthcare - but I will happily join in anything that puts a stop to this insidious erosion of the NHS.

Actually costing people their lives already

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-26254049

This is both scary and inevitable . I am going to go against the grain and admit that I think that free health care is no longer valid in our society. People are living far longer, population is far larger and medical procedures far more wide ranging and complex. But!!! I am scared to death of the tories being the ones in charge introducing some form of paid-for health care.

I have lived in many countries and all of them require some payment for health care. Germany there is compulsory insurance, Scandinavia and Ireland make you pay for gp visits and hospital treatment - although highly subsidised and subject to a limit.

It sounds from Hidingmyindentity's last post that we could end up with a hybrid of the australian and american systems. In australia, gp visits are free and certain treatments. Although if you have the right health fund package you can skip the queues for treatment and get other treatments not freely available. It is a system that works as the middle classes all pay for health insurance because of tax incentives (and because they can afford it), effectively subsidising the public health care system for the others, which works very well. As far as I understand the american system is where you pay for private health insurance and if you get sick without it, that's it for you apart from a very poorly funded public health care.

The tories strategy is to starve the nhs of cash and then claim that it is impossible to have a free health care and allow their mates and the americans to take over. Although I say that most people should contribute to their health care, it should be done in a way to ensure that the most vulnerable are still able to access help when they need it. I do not for one second trust that this will happen with the tories in charge. Also the tories' austerity means that a significant portion of the population don't have the means to pay for health as they spending money on things like food and heating.

This has been going on stealthily for years. I know loads of people who have private health insurance as part of their salary package. We will end up with a two-tier health care system if no one talks about this. All politicians are too scared to mention the elephant in the room that health care is too expensive for the whole country and it has led to the tories being able implement their ideology in secret. Most people will only find out about it when they have a choice of waiting 5 years for a treatment, having to accept second-rate care or paying. Which is happening now.

Hazey of course Virgincare can't offer the same level of service as the NHS/local authority, Virgincare is hoping to make a profit they've outbit the previous provider, in our case the local authority, so they're already saying they can do the care for less and they can only do this by cutting corners and reducing the quality and anoint of service they offer.
Nutrion for all our patients in the community has been taken over by Nutrica (who are an arm of Danone) they now do all enteral feeding providing equipment feeds etc thus fragmenting care down and again they're not doing it for love but to make a profit.
I'm not opposed to companies making profit in general neither am I opposed to the free market but not when it comes to health/illness. Excellence should be the only concern not profit/cost cutting.

Hazey of course Virgincare can't offer the same level of service as the NHS/local authority,

Yes I realise this, which is why I (and everyone I know who are affected) voiced concerns when the plan was first mooted. It did fuck all good though.

I'm very shocked that you are a HCP, senior enough to be talking about strategy with the medical director at your trust and you haven't worked out yet that PCTs bit the dust years ago.

Rationing of planned care services is not the same as a plan to privatise the NHS. It is a response to having to prioritise need when demand and cost of new drugs and treatments is going up and budgets are not. We either have to deliver less, or we have to pay (a lot) more.

I think your medical director gave you his opinion of what will be happening in the NHS in the future. He didn't reveal a secret plan.

OP Did the discussion cover the subject of how much poor housing costs the NHS. i suspect not.

On the subject of trying to stay healthy...........ive lost ten stone. This has likely extended my life which means im now more likely to need help when going through the menopause and then when im elderly the care that may be needed there.

Many ppl will think..........well why bother when the care or medical help that you are more likely to need later on isnt going to be there.
Whats the point of living longer if you are only going to suffer more at the end for the lack of medical resources.

The Right have no shame. The American system is shit and thats what May wants us to have. So thats what we will get.
We have no say and no voice.