Peripatetic Music teachers - talk me down!

[VanillaSugar]

DS (age 9) has been having drum lessons for the past 18 months. Today I asked his teacher if he could prepare him for Grade 1 next year (i.e. after Christmas, not the start of the next academic year in September).

Well, he went off on a rant for 10 mins about how he wants children to enjoy the instrument, it's not all about passing exams otherwise the teachers are teaching to pass the test, not teaching kids to be musicians. ...

My point is that it's all very well for DS to tell people he can play the drums, but the usual questio is "oh yes, which grade are you on?" DS will be sitting the 11+ exam next year for an over subscribed school so any extra piece of paper he can add to his school reference has to be a bonus.

My other point is that you can't say that you can drive a car unless you've passed your test. The drum teacher gave the example of a conductor who said that just because a violinist has grade 8, doesn't mean to say that they will be a good violinist. Well a violinist wouldn't be able to audition for an orchestra unless they'd passed a certain set of grades in the first place.

My DD went through all this as well with her violin teacher. Again, she started in Year 4 and it was a battle to get her teacher to enter her for the exams. DD eventually passed Grade 7 during which she had joined a senior orchestra (entry grade & audition requirement) and went off on a European tour. This isn't a stealth boast - I've included this to emphasise my point that passing music exams is necessary.

So why have BOTH these teachers been so bloody awkward? Please, if you're a Peri, please give me the other side. And please don't say it's because my kids are rubbish at music

I teach and always make it clear that i can teach for exams or pleasure,with no pressure, but I do encourage exams as it gives a sense of achievement and I have a few very committed students who go straight from exam to exam, which is fine, but as i did the same thing as a pupil ( my choice), i feel as a performer i have gaps in my technique, as i started on the flute at 14 and by 18 had taken, grades 3, 5 and 8, so whilst i could say I had grade 8, my general musicianship was and still is quite patchy particularly on the piano, i would never consider myself a pianist as i have to slog to learn a piece, which had I studied my instrument over a longer period I would be a more competent performer. I do think the teacher should be guided by the student, I have had one or two "pushy" parents who are asking after 6 months on the piano when their child will be taking grade 1, or can they skip grade 1 and move to grade 2. These particular parents were not musicians so have no idea on the work involved or of the commitment required , as a teacher you can see from the weekly lessons who practices and who doesn't. My only argument against would be if i felt they really wouldn't be safely ready at the time of the exam and therefore wouldn't want to have the pupil experience a fail or a poor pass when given longer they would have achieved a much better result. Also timescale for being ready for grade 1 will depend on the instrument and the pupils commitment.

My DS is going to study jazz performing at a conservatoire without ever sitting an exam on his instrument.

On the other hand some of my pupils come on in leaps and bounds in the run up to exams as they practice more.

There are other ways to create goals - performing in public, teacher -directed goals, auditioning for groups.

I'm a parent and was a violinist and teacher once upon a time.

If he's enjoying it at this stage, that's enough. Grade 3 is probably a good exam to start on. Grade 1/2 aren't wildly impressive, so no point in stressing until he's developed a bit further.

I'm a parent of 2 piano playing daughters -

DD16 has done grade 1, 6 and is working towards Grade 8 exam in piano.
(1 was to see if she took to exams, 6 because she wanted a high grade under her belt and had done the Grade 5 theory, 8 because she NOW enjoys the discipline of working towards a big reward)

she has jumped straight into Grade 6 Musical theatre singing - she knows the level required and wants the benefit of a second "instrument" (voice) grading for 6th form/Uni applications etc

All ensembles she has played with thus far have auditioned rather than set a minimum grade or standard.

DD14 has done Grade1, decided she hates music exams and is currently having fun simply playing - at about grade 5. She plays in a school jazz ensemble.

I am a violinist, married to another string player, and both of us teach (him at post graduate level, me younger kids). Our son is a string player and all of our kids play; most of our friends are musicians, scattered over the globe and of many nationalities. Only in the UK are people likely to take music exams, and none of the professional musicians I know did them (except maybe one or two in a casual way).

Here is why I don't like exams:
-It is a false goal. People should play music because of their own pleasure in playing and in order to share that joy with an audience
-I see it as a cop-out for the schools and music teacher. Kids practise for exams, so teachers don't have to figure out other more genuine goals for them (class recitals, school concerts, house concerts, public concerts)

• They encourage an attitude of going on to the next "level" and just going through whatever the next batch of pieces is. I can't tell you how many kids and adults have "done grade 8" without learning how to make a beautiful sound or shape a phrase

-Exams encourage the kids to think competitively in a silly way "What grade are you?" "I got a distinction in grade 4" etc. This kind of nonsense infects children's thinking in so many areas; why can't we leave the arts out of it? -Kids work on the same pieces for too long, often, until they are sick of them, and throughly uninspired -The exam process can be intimidating -The exams make kids think they play in order to be judged by (often joyless) adults- very uninspiring for many children -`The repertoire list is often not perfect for all kids, and makes teachers less likely to figure out exactly which piece will inspire a particular child

They sound like a pair o' pathetic peripatetics to me.

That's a quote, before someone very serious gets annoyed with me for not respecting the opinion of music teachers!

Totally agree OP. I appreciate this might not be the case everywhere, but certainly in my DDs case, her teacher didn't put her through any grading whatsoever, until it came to her wanting to study it at A level, and not being able to, as she hadn't taken the Grade 5 exam. Cue 3 very rushed exams, (Grade 3, 4 and 5) she'd had at least 8/10 years previously in which to sit them

I love iamSpam's assumption that DS isn't any good

Did you deliberately misread my comment? I said most people are mediocre (which by definition is true) I very much doubt he's a musical virtuoso (and if he was clearly having a grade 1 would make no difference at all) who is dead set on making a career out of music!

Thank you again, much appreciated! I don't suppose there will ever be a right or wrong answer.

In all likelihood OP's son isn't very good

No iamspam I didn't misread this at all.

I'm a peri teacher. You and the teacher both have a point. Exams are not actually necessary, most school orchestras would ask for a grade standard, and an audition to show you're that standard. I went to one of the top music colleges in the UK and a few of my friends had not done any exams. I only did one on my instrument (albeit grade 8)

That being said..I like to enter my kids for exams. It gives them something to work for and encourages them, and it gives a broad syllabus to work from.
I tend to go by what the child wants. If the child is keen to do an exam, and the parent too, then that's great. It's when a child is not keen but the parent is pushing it and stressing the child over adding 'an extra string to their bow' to get in to such and such a school that I might react like the teacher did.

Depends what you mean by "very good". If you read the rest of my comment I clearly mean one of the 0,1% of people who are talented enough to perform music for a living. The rest of us (and I clearly included myself in that) might get to grade 8 but just do it for our own enjoyment. I don't for a minute believe you actually misunderstood unless you only read the first line.

I got 5 grade 8s. My 5 children have a good few too. For some of us it does matter never mind the UCAS poitns which even help (for grades 6 - 8) when applying for jobs in their 20s. You can enjoy music and do an exam grade a year.

For many children an exam makes them do some work. I would never judge a teacher by an exam grade. 3 of my children won music scholarships but plenty of them have thought the pass mark the perfect mark - just enough practice done but even there I am still glad they got the grade as it encourages them.

You can always puit them in for exams yourself by the way. I did the twins' theory teaching and entrance for grades 1, 2, 3, and 5 theory and 3, 5, 6 and 7 singing.

I am a parent of a Dd who is having piano and clarinet lessons. I don't agree with no exams at all (unless the dcs don't want them) the same like I don't agree on playing only 24 pieces from grade 1 to grade 8 and being only on the exam syllabus and nothing else.

I think a good balance is using the exams to measure progress and rather than work towards them using them more like a little stop to give the dc a sense of achievement.

Dd has only done grade 1, 3 and is now doing grade 5 on piano and has played a very wide range of repertoire, the 3 exams pieces are only a small amount of music she plays for a bit to measure her achievements. She does the same for clarinet, did grade 1 and is now preparing for grade 3.

A friend of dd did piano for 4 years with a teacher who was against exams even though the parents asked for one. When the teacher finally agreed with one they discovered she was only ready for grade 1. I personally think I would have rather known earlier that there was no progress over such a long period of time.

I have grade 8 and my DD has grade 1. I did all the exams in my chosen instrument and a good few in additional instruments. I found it brilliant in terms of structure, goals, and nerves. I was one of the few people i know who was never nervous about gcse, a level and degree exams -after music exams they were a piece of cake.
I have never been so nervous as when my DD did her grade 1. But it was a very positive experience for her and gave her a real belief in what she could achieve.
She has plenty of time for practising non exam related music, for school concerts and festivals, and in orchestra practice.

I am a fan of music exams, but equally they need to be coupled with group musical opportunities.

NoMore - we have also found that! GCSEs etc are hold no fear here - not after Grade 5 theory in particular!

And talking in front of a room full of people similarly holds no fear after performing on a stage in front of the mayor and local tv.

Love the way music has built confidence in my children without even thinking about it.

My DD would be the exception to the rule, she found GCSEs just as terrifying as her music exams! She also performed solos fine and lost confidence later, so it isn't a sure thing.