To wonder what Teresa May's plans for secondary moderns are

[Neverthelessshepersisted]

That's it really.
I am a bit disappointed with her tbh.

"There is something very ironic about the fact that in a thread specifically about secondary moderns, we are once again focusing on the needs of the very highest attainers......."

Agree.

So: secondary moderns anyone?

My children effectively go to a secondary modern, even though it's labelled a comp. Most children in this area will find the same. In fact out progress 8 for the authority and indeed the majority of schools here is in negative numbers.- 0.5 I think. Less than 1% of pupils in some schools here achieve the EBACc. Those children have no chance of going to a grammar school.

Why is your school "effectively a secondary modern" Head?

Perhaps the prospective medics should be encouraged to teach maths.....why do we have a shortage of maths teachers ? Perhaps teaching should be made more attractive. It really shouldn't be either or.

Interesting Bertand I was thinking the opposite, that I could probrably get someone through GSCE maths at a C grade, but you need real support to suceed applying to an uber competitive course.

I am just baffled by the 11+ split, full stop. It's archaic. Given the way the world is changing, we need more highly qualified designers, engineers, computer technicians and entrepreneurs. So, we need high-quality schools and colleges that can supply the dedicated support and enthusiasm for those subjects. It should not be about class or streaming the bright/dumb kids. It should be about aptitude and interest in those subjects.

Anyone want a go at answering the question about stretching able mathematicians in top set of a secondary modern?

Bert you seem to think that clever kids teach themselves, that the lion's share of resources belong to the others. That is not the case.

Some manage it. There have been excellent secondary moderns mentioned on these threads. Ask them.

Some manage it. There have been excellent secondary moderns mentioned on these threads. Ask them.

Or alternatively, we could ask the many good comprehensives how they manage it and copy what they do, the new wouldn't "need" grammars. But at least your reply should show everyone just how much pro-grammar advocates care about those in secondary moderns.

"Interesting Bertand I was thinking the opposite, that I could probrably get someone through GSCE maths at a C grade, but you need real support to suceed applying to an uber competitive course"

Yes, you need support to apply for an uber competitive course, but that's a different thing- and a matter for 6th forms.

Green,

But you say that a child 'who is measured as able across the things that the 11+ measures' on a single day at 10 cannot effectively be educated in the top set of a comprehensive, and MUST have a grammar, whereas a child equally as able in some subjects, but not as able in others MUST just get on with being in a seonday modern, that's just the way it is?

Good comprehensives manage to stretch all their able children across all subjects. If your answer to 'how do secondary moderns stretch the able children who are in them?' is 'talk to the best secondary moderns', surely the answer to 'how do comprehennsives stretch their able children?' is, by logical extension, ask the excellent comprehensives that already do this well??

"Bert you seem to think that clever kids teach themselves, that the lion's share of resources belong to the others. That is not the case."

What I find quite depressing on this thread is that you can make quite a nuanced comment, and it is read as simplistic, the nuance ignored. What's the point of a discussion where people do that?

Noble you wont like this but as i said upthread your yr11 can resit. Nobody will allow someone to have another go because they missed the A or A*. Your Yr 11 will likely do the course after (or even while ) resitting. The aspiring medic will end up doing an "allied" science and feeling resentful, when they realise the medics in their hall of residence arent as bright as them.

You'd have to ask the "Outstanding" comps how they do it. Our "Good" comp doesn't stretch the more able enough. As has been mentioned and linked to previously this is common.

don't know how "then you" turned into "the new"

Head, do you regret moving to that area?

X post with HFPA... apologies.

Fine, but why are you so worried about children not being stretched in comps but don't seem terribly worried about what will happen to the able in secondary moderns?

There is no desire to move to the Kent model.

"Our "Good" comp doesn't stretch the more able enough."

How does this manifest itself?

"There is no desire to move to the Kent model"

Have we had confirmation of that?

GreenGonger, how common, do you think, are secondary moderns that stretch children who are highly able in specific subjects? More common, or less common, than comprehensives who would stretch an identical child?

Noble you wont like this but as i said upthread your yr11 can resit

Do you know how many kids pass GCSE resit? 27%

Do you know how many jobs you can't get if you haven't got a C in GCSE maths? Lots.

I taught top set last year. All kids got A*/A and passed Further maths, a handful got A^.
I also taught GCSE resit. All of them got a C.

So if my school becomes a grammar and all the resit kids go elsewhere, choose whether I teach the top set kids or the resit kids, because now I can't teach both.

Progress 8 for high attainers only from a selection of schools in a single locality:

0.57
0.42
0.52
0.03
0.41
-0.10
0.12
-0.06

Which is the highly-acclaimed super-selective, and which 3 are comprehensives?

You have said it over and over Bert, they need less teacher time, should be able to do it themselves , shouldn't need hand holding. It comes across as if you don't think these dcs are very deserving of time and attention.