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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Can't believe my cleaner just asked me this?!

179 replies

marplessparkles · 08/03/2017 19:00

Cleaner texted me to ask if I could pay her cash this week (£60). I said sure, is it just for this week or is this something you want to do every week?

She replied if I could do it every week because she found out she and her partner can get housing benefit if she can prove she has a lower income, so obviously not declaring or paying tax on her cash jobs.

I'm a bit Shock On a moral and ethical level I can't see how she is so blatantly happy in doing this; ripping of hard working taxpayers and councils who will have to fund her benefits.

AIBU to let her go?

OP posts:
fulloffunreally · 08/03/2017 22:50

@littlefrog

I think you might be missing the point. it is NOT up to those who pay cash to establish if it is benefit fraud or if the recipient is tax compliant. There are large Government Departments for that.

And also, I doubt very much if the cleaner came clean (oops) to her employer about the reasons for cash only either.

A kind of baiting thread maybe.

littlefrog3 · 08/03/2017 23:02

Yeah maybe it is a baiting thread. I don't know. Has the OP been back since she started it?

HotSince82 · 08/03/2017 23:16

I wouldn't expect a cleaner who didn't work for an agency/company to be declaring their earnings to HMRC.

One of my ex cleaners was just a local mum who cleaned for a few of us other mums whilst her DC were at school/DH at work, she'd have been an idiot to declare it and I wouldn't have expected that she did tbh.

TinfoilHattie · 08/03/2017 23:55

she'd have been an idiot to declare it

No, she'd have been an idiot NOT to, seeing as its illegal... It's not a choice you get to make. If you're working or are self-employed, you have to tell HMRC. You have to register as self-employed, even if you're only doing a few hours a week.

PurpleDaisies · 08/03/2017 23:59

One of my ex cleaners was just a local mum who cleaned for a few of us other mums whilst her DC were at school/DH at work, she'd have been an idiot to declare it and I wouldn't have expected that she did tbh.

Why would she have been an idiot to comply with the legal requirements of being self employed? It's not hard to do a tax return and you can earn £10k without having to pay anything Confused

IvorHughJarrs · 09/03/2017 00:08

There is an old saying "Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves" meaning that those pennies mount up quickly. It is hypocritical to suggest that it is ok for individuals to do this because large companies don't pay enough because they are all committing the same crime of stealing from the taxpayer. It's no wonder this country is in the shit and running out of money for the NHS, benefits and care
Shame on everyone who does this or condones it

VeryBitchyRestingFace · 09/03/2017 03:52

No, she'd have been an idiot NOT to, seeing as its illegal... It's not a choice you get to make. If you're working or are self-employed, you have to tell HMRC. You have to register as self-employed, even if you're only doing a few hours a week.

That's still a choice - a choice whether to declare income or not.

My home is being redecorated at present. The painter is self employed but I'm paying him cash in hand. Strongly suspect he isn't going to declare all of it (if at all).

His choice. Not something I'm going to lose sleep over.

Phoebefromfriends · 09/03/2017 05:12

Having recently encountered the benefits system I can say it was a minefield of random rules and they treated me like a criminal. It was mind blowingly depressing and over complicated, there were times when I didn't know how I was going to eat and housing benefit was a joke due to my massive rent, which is due to house prices. Basically it was quite simply the best way to deplete someone's self worth. Luckily for me it was short lived but I can see how you end up seeing the whole system as the enemy and that could lead to trying to cheat the system. I'm not excusing it but you can feel incredibly trapped and maybe your cleaner wants to escape. However, we can't think it's OK for some small businesses to not declare income whilst simultaneously wanting big business to declare there's. What you need is an end to the Tory cuts and a real look at how to support those who are struggling to make ends meet.

Imagine if everyone declared their earnings it would force big businesses to do the same as we could all genuinely say we were being honest? It would also generate more taxes which would hopefully but probably won't be due to the Toriesbe used to pay for the NHS and social services.

In the case of this cleaner she was an idiot to actually put that in a text and I personally couldn't have her working for me as I would be complicit in the fraud.

Userone1 · 09/03/2017 06:45

It's legal to earn £60 AND claim help with housing benefit.

BalloonSlayer · 09/03/2017 06:56

Erm I thought the CSA (this was back when it WAS the CSA) was set up to get Men to support their children so that the state didn't have to step in. The issue being that men (and I suppose some women) walked away from their families leaving them to live off benefits. The Mum in question would have had to claim benefits as the children's father "was on a low income." I think that's exactly the same thing.

"Claim you are earning less than you are so the state will meet your obligations for you" - fits both cases.

Railgunner1 · 09/03/2017 07:06

I wonder how many of you give pocket money to your kids for doing a chore. Do they have to pay tax too?

sofiainwonderland · 09/03/2017 07:10

That's quite cheeky of her tbh. Sack her, I wouldn't trust her at all in my home. Tbh, she's cheating the whole system, why would she be ashamed of cheating YOU at some point?

RainbowsAndUnicorn · 09/03/2017 07:20

I'd let her go too, a cleaner has access to many homes so stealing is not in.

I'd also report to the benefits agency, it's stealing from tax payers.

Userone1 · 09/03/2017 07:22

It's LEGAL for her to earn £60 and claim help with housing benefit.

You can work and claim housing benefit.

Gwenhwyfar · 09/03/2017 07:23

"You can work and claim housing benefit."

Yes, but you have to declare your earnings and all savings and assets.

Userone1 · 09/03/2017 07:24

Cleaner has said she can claim housing benefit if she can prove she is on a low income. She can!

Userone1 · 09/03/2017 07:25

Where in the OP did it say she wouldn't be declaring it?

Userone1 · 09/03/2017 07:27

OP has just assumed she won't

NewPuppyMum · 09/03/2017 07:49

However, I find it hard to get angry at people who commit benefit fraud when that just gets them the same income per month that others have without benefit fraud and the same weekly worktime.

VestelVirgin so it's okay to cheat the system as long as they don't earn more than someone who works the same hours and gets the same money? Hmm

gandalf456 · 09/03/2017 08:04

The question is why are wages so low?

FlouncingInAWinterWonderland · 09/03/2017 08:09

Purpledaisies If you get tax credits you lose 41p in the £1 from the first pound you declare, although technically you don't need to declare until I think its £2000 is earned. So the income tax threshold can be a little misleading.

If the system is wrong we don't get to make up our own rules, we need to protest against the system. Society can only exist if we are all in broad agreement of the rules of conduct within it. Its really worrying the number of people who feel 'our' rules only apply to everyone else. One person one vote. Use it or put up with what we have.

claraschu · 09/03/2017 08:12

It is easy for the super rich to defraud the system, often quite legally. I would never report a poor struggling person trying to make ends meet. The whole system is stacked against the poor, and someone like Trump can get away without paying taxes (I know he is American but similar things happen here). I am not saying that what your cleaner is doing is ok, but I would not want to blow the whistle on a cleaner

fairweathercyclist · 09/03/2017 08:13

I wonder how many of you give pocket money to your kids for doing a chore. Do they have to pay tax too

I doubt many kids earn more than £11,000 a year from their parents doing chores!

Pinbasket · 09/03/2017 08:21

My cleaner goes to the job centre before she comes to clean for me...and I know she works pretty much full time cleaning. All cash in hand. Yes it's somewhat annoying but I pay her £6 an hour and she's honest and reliable.

I think your 'somewhat annoying' cleaner who you pay £6 an hour to, has the moral high ground here, compared to your exploitation of her.

countrygirl55 · 09/03/2017 08:25

I'd continue to pay her by transfer (or bin her off) and report to the HMRC. Fraudulent claims cost the U.K. £1.2 BILLION pounds a year. That's no small amount of money (it would fund almost 10% of the NHS). The more fraudulent claims there are, the harder it becomes for genuine people to receive benefits, as media and the "system" perpetuate a perception of scrounging.

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