To have assumed it was common courtesy among dog walkers

[SomewhereInbetween1]

To put your dog on a lead if you see another owner do so to their dog once they've spotted you? Especially if your dog's recall is a little sketchy? I've seen a lot of owners put their dogs on the lead at the sight of other dogs because they may, for instance, not get along with other dogs. But if the other dogs are off the lead and so still able to approach the one on the lead, it entirely defeats the effort. Anyone had any experience with this?

YANBU - at all. I can't tell you how much it pisses me off when people let their out of control dogs run up to mine. Control is the issue - I have no problem at all with well behaved dogs not being put on a lead as they are trained enough to be under control but if you can't call your dog back and it is running after mine (on a lead and muzzled) then you are at fault and an irresponsible dog-owner. I'm working incredibly hard at the moment to try and change my dog's fear aggression (not her fault, dumped to die as a tiny puppy she didn't benefit from being with her mum to learn socialisation skills). Most people are great but there's always someone who is totally clueless and that make it much harder for anyone who is trying to correct behaviour problems. Your dog, your responsibility to keep it under control.

In my case there has also been another sad side effect of people's lack of consideration. I have a decent set of skills now for dealing with fear aggressive dogs. I know what body language to look out for that says they're uncomfortable long before they get to the growling/barking/plunging stage. I have successfully used counter conditioning to reduce my dog's "safe zone". I know all the comparatively quiet routes, spaces and times where/when a fear aggressive dog can be walked with a lower risk of encountering others. I have developed 'other dog radar' and can assess pretty quickly whether the other dog looks relaxed, under control (on or off the lead) and disinterested or whether they're about to 'lock on' to PageDog, and react accordingly depending on the space or distance available.

But will a future troubled dog benefit from these tools in my toolbox? Not if you paid me. I will not knowingly take on another fear aggressive dog, because despite me doing and knowing and trying everything I do, the single thing that makes owning - or to be precise, walking, but that's a huge and regular part of dog ownership - a fear aggressive dog stressful, exhausting and frustrating is not the dog or his issues per se, it's the one thing I can't predict or control: that small number of inconsiderate, thoughtless or arrogant owners who will not make a tiny effort to control their dogs.

"If you must have an aggressive dog"

Yes because I really fancied having a dog so frightened of life that it became aggressive.

Because I wanted a dog that had major surgery at 5 WEEKS old that caused it to become terrified of people due to the amount of injections and painful procedures he had.

Because I wanted my dog to be almost torn apart by another dog while he was still recovering from said surgery and subsequently become terrified of dogs incase they hurt him.

Yep, couldn't think of anything I would want more. I could not think of anything better to do with my time than be rude to idiots who let their dog run up to mine and cause him to go into a blind panic as he thinks they will attack him.

Not all aggression problems are caused by a lack of training or a lack of effort by the owner. For what it's worth i have spend hundreds of pounds and hours with reputable trainers to get to the point I am at and there's nothing more frustrating than someone undoing all of that work in 3 seconds.

Behaviour modification involves teaching my dog that your dog wont hurt him. How can I do that when 1. I don't know your dog won't hurt him and 2. It causes him lots of stress when he's stuck on a lead and can't get out of the situation.

I allow mine to socialise with dogs I am certain are friendly and well trained not any random dog that I don't know the temperament of.

You can do everything right and still end up with an aggressive dog for reasons beyond your control. That's largely what happened to us. I then compounded it by naively thinking that meeting other dogs was 'socializing' - I'm now ashamed at some of the things I did knowing what I do now. It's taken about two years to get to a point where she's largely indifferent unless a dog persists. That's was when I lose it a little.

I've now become a ninja, able to dive into hedges and hide behind parked cars with ease. Even then there's always one that has to bother us.

comingup , I stand by what I said about calling your dog back if you meet people and dogs you don't know , mainly because I had a big dog , in any situation the 'big' dog will be seen as the guilty party even if a tiny dog started it , so it was self preservation for my lovely hound .

I live in a tourist area , so on a day to day basis Monday to Friday you can be almost be certain of who you are going to meet and how their dogs react , Saturday and Sunday all bets are off , thats why I would recall and put on lead if strangers are approaching , often a quick shout 'is your's OK ' would mean off lead again , sometimes it would mean walking for a full 5 minutes whilst on lead

Page, Blackfell and Godstopper have said everything there is to say.

The reasons dogs become fear aggressive and anti-social are more complicated than you might think. It's not as simple as owner failure, there are a hundred things which might cause it and some dogs are also predisposed to a nervous temperament.

Anyhow, I'm done. My dog is currently shaking on my lap - she has tremors due to nerve degeneration - and in a tramadol induced snooze. A pp commented that it was "sad" that our dogs couldn't have the joy of being able to socialise - yes, it is sad, but to cope with her environment I have to keep her world very, very, small. She is so frightened and aggressive that it would be perfectly ok with her to never set eyes on another dog again.

Her aggression is now escalating (she bit someone), so we may have to say goodbye soon anyway. She's only 9 years old and I adore the bones of the crabby, grumpy little bastard. I'll miss her.

I'd be quids in if I had a quid for every time I've heard 'It's ok, he's friendly' . Yeah? Well mine fucking isn't and I'm doing my best to protect your dog because you haven't got any control and haven't bothered training your dog.

The amount of times I've had to recall my (friendly, off lead) dog so another owner can retrieve their dog who is following and hassling mine is huge. So bloody annoying. Train your sodding dog!

Sorry to hear you might have to say goodbye to your little girl Billy. I hope you're able to make her last days comfortable and as stress-free as possible.

I find people who don't have experience with horribly fear aggressive, non-dog friendly dogs, just don't understand (and this is borne out pretty well by PPs).

Lead and muzzle on mine, not a breed known for being soft and cuddly, yet still people let their dogs run up and say hello. JUST NO. Don't even get me started on the "dog walkers" with 6+ dogs who don't recall. We pick our routes and times carefully now after things being made so much worse by people who are ignorant/selfish/both.

Yes, it's a nice idea to put your dog on a lead if there's another walker a distance away so you can avoid each other. However, if you can't avoid each other, it's not that clear cut:

Some dogs, like mine, are friendly off the lead. On the lead they're aggressive. Mine as a result of being chained up by his previous foul owners. But a lot of dogs can act differently on the lead, passing another dog because their natural fight or flight response is being prevented, they are trapped AND if you are tense, the tension is felt by the dog in the way you're holding the lead and it thinks there's something to worry about. Not all dogs are like that, but it's more common than you'd think. So, passing each other might go a LOT better if their dog is off lead. If that's the case, you'd hope they'd also teach their dog a good recall so he doesn't follow you a long way down the path!

Susan I know to avoid walking my boy late morning as there's a dog walker in the area where we walk at around 11am. Last time I counted eight dogs off lead with very little being done to control them.

So very sorry Billy - she might be a nightmare to the world, but I expect she's nevertheless your world. Wishing you both peace in the days that follow.

Ogod. Some dog walkers. They pull up to what was a quiet field, and then unleash 6+ dogs which proceed to terrorize others. That's not socialisation: it's an uncontrolled rabble that's likely stressful for the dog. Beware if you come across a dog walker like this. Would be very happy if York council limited the no of dogs that one person can walk in public at once.

I can see two sides to this. Courtesy should work both ways.

If you have a reactive/aggressive dog you should take steps to address this, it's not normal and it is a behavioural issue that needs worked on. Just because you have your dog on a lead doesn't mean everyone else should.

Responsible owners should have taught recall and put their dog on a lead if they see a dog wearing a yellow lead etc but it annoys me when I see owners of reactive dogs all uptight grasping their dogs on leads looking horrified at the sight of a friendly dog walking in their direction in a heavily used known off lead walking area like a forest.

Risk assess where you walk, your dog is your problem. If you know it will react and bite then have it muzzled for goodness sake.

I do wonder why on earth the current trend seems to be it's okay to have a reactive aggressive dog...guess what , no it's not!!

I do wonder why on earth the current trend seems to be it's okay to have a reactive aggressive dog...guess what , no it's not!!

This is at least the second post to suggest that having a fear aggressive dog is something that people go out of their way to acquire, as if it were top of our wish list. It really isn't. It's a fucking PITA to deal with (made 1000 times worse by people who don't prevent their dog from getting in our's space). Are people assuming that when we say "fear aggressive" we're all referring to guard or fighting breeds, and assume it's an inherent trait of the breed? My fear aggressive dog is a spaniel, FFS. Any dog can become FA as many of us have painstakingly explained.

There was a thread a week or so ago where a pregnant OP expressed concerns about her extremely challenging-sounding large fear aggressive dog who doesn't give any warnings before it lunges, despite her having worked with behaviourists consistently over the seven years she had owned it. I, and a few other people who have FA dogs, advised PTS in those specific circumstances. We were promptly shouted down by so-called dog lovers saying PTS was "cruel" and if the OP couldn't keep the dog, she should rehome it (none of those people actually volunteered to take it, mind you). Have we now achieved Schroedingers dog? Should be kept alive at all costs regardless of how aggressive it is...but mustn't inconvenience any other dog owners for as much as 30 seconds and ideally should exist in an otherwise dog-free bubble.

Perhaps people should consider that if they were just a little bit more considerate and responsible in keeping their own friendly/playful/inquisitive dogs under control, there would be far fewer fear aggressive dogs in the first place...

It isnt just other dogs they annoy though. Children and other adults.

On a Christmas day walk a woman was in the park with her dog and it bounded up to me and jumped up at me plastering my new coat in muddy footprints. He's just a baby she says...he doesnt stop when called. I let her know I wasnt happy and he did it again and tried a third time whilst she stood and watched it and I finally screamed at her to get him off me and to put her bloody dog on a lead if she cant control it in public.

Christmas day walk cut short and home to clean the mud off my new coat and ugg boots.

I just dont understand how inconsiderate some people are. You wanted a dog and you love your pet but no one else does: control it in public.

Have you become FA as a result, @FreeNiki?

Nothing wrong with a friendly 'under control' dog. I don't expect anyone to put their dog on a lead when they see me coming but I do expect them to keep their dog away from mine and if they can't do that then they need to be clipped on a lead for the few minutes it takes to pass by safely.

It's not a big deal and it really shouldn't be a problem to be thoughtful and considerate of everyone using public parks and woods. You wouldn't let your dogs run up to random children so why let them run up to dogs who clearly need space. It is really hard work having a reactive dog and definitely not something I would have chosen but weeks of hard work can be ruined by 'friendly' dogs.

Perhaps people should consider that if they were just a little bit more considerate and responsible in keeping their own friendly/playful/inquisitive dogs under control, there would be far fewer fear aggressive dogs in the first place…

Yes…absolutely

I'm a bit baffled by the big inconvenience of having your dog under control for the five seconds it takes us to pass. When you do that, it's a big help. It teaches Scrabble that dogs are OK and boosts her confidence.

So glad most people we meet are like this. She can tolerate quick greetings now which is massive given how she was. But that's easily undone by one idiot.

It's not even about not wanting to meet other dogs. That just happens to be my reason. Everyone has a right to be left in peace. We keep to ourselves and still those missing the thinking part of their brain manage to find us. Nothing more I can realistically do.

This used to drive me mad when I had my dog. She was a lab and had a friendly demeanour and loved people but her sight issues meant she could snap at other dogs.

I also has a GS cross at the same time. He was soft with dogs and people but people used to grab their dogs and try to avoid him. Poor boy.

So, if all dogs need to socialise then I'm assuming those who advocate off lead dogs running up to each other would be happy for mine to run up to yours?
If a fight broke out would you still think dogs would be dogs or would you think me irresponsible?

I'm doing the right thing to keep mine and your dog safe. I'm sure it wouldn't be as black and white if those with nervous or potentially aggressive dogs felt the same way and let those dogs run up to yours?

I've sometimes been tempted to let Scrabble have a go at another dig Black fell. Might teach said owner a much deserved lesson. Obviously I never would, but it's sometimes very tempting ...

"I'm assuming those who advocate off lead dogs running up to each other would be happy for mine to run up to yours?"

I have no clue what they're thinking tbh...

It's not logical in anyway to be letting your dog run up to on lead dogs, apart from anything else - what benefit do they think their dog is going to get from it?

I quite often feel sorry for the dogs that run up to mine, it's not their fault their owner doesn't protect them from being upset or hurt. (The muzzle stops my dog from biting, I can stop him from pouncing on them, but if they get close enough he will sometimes hit out with his paws or head) I do my best, but it could have been completely avoided if their owner just kept them away.

The worst of it is, my dog has been aggressive for 3 years (before anyone mentions training, again, he's not fixable, we work constantly on improvements but he'll never be ok because his medical issues are not curable) I've actually seen puppies who were allowed to meet him become fear aggressive bevause their owners didn't control which dogs they got to meet.

I totally agree with you op it really boils my piss.

My dog is fear aggressive. Through lots of training etc finally got her to a place where she was ok.

Last night walking my dog (on lead) two off lead dogs approached one sniffing her bum the other got in her face. The owner wasn't able to recall her dogs and making little effort to pull her dog away,despite my dog being visibly unhappy with the situation. My dog reacted ok.

This am, I'm sure as a result, my dog was barking and growling at dogs even on the other side of the road. She NEVER does this since training her (about 8 years). With a bit of reminding and retraining my dog settled with the next few dogs but I was bloody annoyed with the dogwalker from last night.

Years ago I took my dog to a behaviourist. They taught me how to manage her fear aggression etc and advised dead against allowing unfamiliar dogs to come up to her. Their exact words were "if you were out taking a quiet stroll and a stranger started bouncing in your face saying 'I want to be your friend' you wouldn't like it either". Makes sense doesn't it? Something for people with off lead (imo) overfriendly and therefore out of control dogs to think about.
Yes your dog may be friendly but you need to at least control it's enthusiasm, for etiquette and protection.

Ours is the overly friendly, bound in your face, wants to be your friend type that you describe minesapintofwine, so I always put her on a lead when we pass other dogs until her recall is absolutely perfect. She's getting there, but I'm not risking her safety or putting another dog in a horribly unfair position because she doesn't realise not everyone wants to be her friend. With enough reinforcement and training though I'm confident she'll have it nailed eventually! 😊