To be LIVID with DS's secondary school

[LemurintheSun]

OK, so it's a couple of months or so before GCSE's begin. DS's best subjects are Chemistry, Physics & Maths; so his A Level applications mainly focus on those subjects. In November, his target grades for all three sciences were As. He didn't do brilliantly in his mocks and got a B and two Cs; but his predicted grades in all three sciences remained Bs, according to info provided at the parent's evening last month. To stay in his current school he would need an A and two Bs in science; to go to another local school to which he has applied, he would need to get those three Bs, and then there is a local college as the final back-up, where he could take A levels or BTECs. I've just seen his exam timetable, which shows that he has been put down for the foundation level exams in biology, which means a max grade of C is possible according to DS. No-one from the school has formally told us any of us this, which has huge implications for his future. (Also applies to one other subject, but that is not something related to his future intention, so I'm inclined to let it lie.) I will be phoning the school on Monday. What should I say, without swearing profusely? AIBU to be LIVID that they would think of doing that without discussing it with us properly?

In relation to natural ability, of which I have none in maths, it is possible to do well at GCSE maths with some effort and lots of ability. My DS got an A at GCSE with minimal effort. He then hit the wall big style at A level - the poor little baby is having to work hard! Ha!

Don't attempt science A levels without at least a B would be my advice.

Some very blasé responses to entries - either intentional or erroneous- which will affect OP's son's path in life: get a grip being particularly so.

OP I am a former teacher and would be very concerned. If it's an error it's up to the school to have checks and double checks in place to prevent that. Imagine if parents don't see the entry sheet for some reason, or don't think to question it? If intentional I think that's a very low aspiration. I've seen it done in some schools as HODs would rather err on the side of caution and limit the aspirational grade than risk an unlikely fall off the bottom into U territory. That said, my understanding was that all subjects were now tierces and therefore candidates will achieve an outcome of 9-1 without there being a point at which they end up with nothing. I haven't taught for a year though and I might be wrong.

Tierless

Why are you looking livid before you've even spoken to them? It's likely it's a simple mistake that's easily rectified. Call them in the morning and see what they say- I wouldn't call all guns blazing though.

Thanks people. Calming down a bit. The "LIVID" is due to the lack of communication (assuming it's not just an admin error), rather than the actual decision. I'm not sure all parents would even spot the dry, unexplained "FND" in a list of subjects, with no other discussion of the issue. And his target grades were As in sciences, until the mocks, so it's a big fall. I am of course urging him to knuckle down, and have been for some time. I have no idea what is for the best in the long run. Maybe a BTEC/apprenticeship at the local college will be just the right thing.

I had a family who were once very angry about a tier entry. Child MUST do higher, we allowed it and the child got a D. I would put my house on it that he would have achieved a C on the foundation paper. The questions were far more accessible.

I wish people would trust professionals. You don't tell a vet how you want a procedure carried out or advise them on the equipment they might need.

This year, only Maths and English are 9-1, and Maths is tiered. Science will be 9-1 in 2018, and will also still be tiered.

I was predicted all A's in every subject, but due to declining mental health has a result of OCD, depression, and being severely bullied i dropped out dead on half way through year 10. I spent the next year with no schooling what so ever, then finally about 3 months prior to the GCSE exams i started getting 45 minutes a week home tutoring by the local hospital of english, 45 minutes of maths, and two 45 minute tutorings of science. I also got 45 minutes a week of elective history. I had a year and a halfs worth of class work, homework, and every single piece of coursework to do, in the space of 3 months. It took doing 3 english pieces of coursework in one weekend to get them to relent to let me take both english literature and english language.
I desperately wanted to take the higher level papers, they let me take intermediate maths which allowed for a maximum B grade, and because i had only covered the topics of one of the 2 history papers i took only one of the two history exams which is the equivalent of half a GCSE, which wasn't tiered so could get any grade from A to fail, but insisted i could only take the foundation level papers in both English courses and Science.(this was in 2006 so science was done as one subject GCSE, not split into chemistry, physics and biology seperately)

No amount of pleading would change their mind. They knew intelligence wise i was capable of the higher papers, BUT because of how little time i had to cover so much of the curriculum and because they could only teach me for less than 1/3 of the time i'd get per week in a classroom face to face, they just wanted me to be able to get a passing grade, and it is easier to achieve a C on foundation paper, than it is to achieve a C on the higher level paper.

As it goes, i achieved a B in maths, a B half GCSE in history, and C's in Science, English literature and English language. Looking back now it was pretty massive an achievement to get the grades i did in my circumstances, and they were enough to get accepted onto the college course i wanted to do, but my illness continued to get worse so college wasn't a possibility anyway.

The fact is, your son only got a C in his mocks, he was predicted and A so the difference levels him out at a projected B, but it is more likely he will only get a C. The C is easier to get on the foundation paper, and a pass is more important to the school for their pass rate tables than your sons future prospects. It is incredibly wrong, but the school are more interested in their own agenda, to get him to pass.

I had this with DS although not in a subject he wanted to study for A level. I spoke to the school. My main point was if he was struggling, why hadn't we been informed. They backtracked then, oh, he's not struggling, we just thought blah, blah,blah. He was allowed to do the higher level and got an A. [smug]

Did your son choose which paper he wanted to do. I remember getting a choice between higher and lower for GCSE's.

Very encouraging, temporarilyjerry . Thanks! and well done to yr DS.

I've never worked at or heard of a school which would consult every parent before submitting exam entries. The logistics would be horrendous. Most schools communicate by posting home exam entries, as yours has.

I think its a bit odd to be so angry because reality doesn't conform with what you expected, when you had no real knowledge over what to expect.

I would be more concerned with why he is being submitted for foundation. He could be particularly weak in Biology; he might not have the aptitude you think in Science or he might not be putting the work in to get good grades. Does he do past papers at home? What does he get?

Are you sure DS hasn't discussed it with the teacher? It isn't always easier to get a C at foundation anyway, it depends on the individual ime. If they don't lack confidence it may not make a difference.

But just talk about it with the teacher tomorrow. And consider whether he really has chosen the right A Level subjects.

One phone call to the school will sort it out tomorrow surely?

You know I see threads on here where people's kids have been horribly bullied (including by teachers) and assaulted at school, ruining their chances of education and people pile into the OP defending the school to the hilt. Yet is seems that there really IS something teachers can do wrong - they can put a kid in for the wrong paper!!

No, Londonsburningahhhh. It was a shock to him, too. but at least he noticed it and brought it to our attention (ok, a week later, but before the slip needs to go back). I'm putting a note on the reply slip, pointing out the discrepancy between the predicted grade and Foundation entry & asking them to contact me urgently to discuss.

This happened to DH, with maths & science subjects. Not to sound dramatic but he was a slightly late bloomer & not exactly NT & they didn't recognise this until it was too late. He was entered for the lower papers on both sets of subjects, scored practically full marks in everything & got Cs. The teachers admitted they'd screwed up & he should have been top set & could have got As in everything.

If you believe your DS has the potential, fight for him to be entered for the higher papers. My MIL didn't with DH & it's really done him no favours.

When I did GCSEs (16 years ago so maybe not relevant!) my school put lots of students in Foundation level Science when we really shouldn't have been. It was because it was much easier (genuinely) to get a C on the Foundation paper than the Higher paper at that time. For stats the school were judged on Cs and above and so they wanted the 'easy Cs' rather than pushing the kids for more. Is it possible that's what's going on here?

"The C is easier to get on the foundation paper" No it isn't.

"and a pass is more important to the school for their pass rate tables than your sons future prospects" Again not true. Schools are under enormous pressure to make sure students achieve their targets (which may or may not be realistic) and to get as many higher grades as possible.

For some students a foundation paper may be easier to get a C. Generally this is students who have weaker literacy or students who've missed a lot of higher content (and are testing around the C/D boundary). Not getting a C can have a big effect on students prospects (more than the difference between B and C), so sometimes it's a safer bet to do foundation.

For stats the school were judged on Cs and above and so they wanted the 'easy Cs' rather than pushing the kids for more.

That's not how schools are measured any more.

bitofacow maths is the exception to the 'natural ability' rule in some ways. It is certainly possible to work hard at maths and make slow steady progress for as long as you want to.

To get to A-level standard in two years does actually appear to require some sort of innate feel for the subject though, and it actually appears to be the last remaining subject in which 'being good at it' actually helps you get through the exams. Everything else has devolved to rote learning.

In general we over emphasise speed and quickness of learning over solidity and depth of learning in the UK. I mean why do we HAVE to take GCSEs at 15/16? Why not take an extra year and get much better grades (and even a better grasp of the subject material, if anyone still cares about that these days).

"I'm putting a note on the reply slip, pointing out the discrepancy between the predicted grade and Foundation entry & asking them to contact me urgently to discuss."

That may not get to who it needs to. Just phone the head of department. Do it quickly, before the exam entry deadline.

We were advised by our ds science teacher that a B was the highest you can get. As she said it's easier to get a B on the foundation paper than it is on the higher paper. My ds also wanted to take higher but now is discussing foundation.

Hmm, Burning Bridges. As I see it, he may end up going to a much rougher school because of this decision, if it is a decision & not a mistake. And so bullying, dodgy friends, poor results etc become more likely. But yes, you have all made me see that the first stage is to check if it is really meant, & why, in a spirit of relative calm. I'm sure I can achieve that.

Thanks donquixotedelamancha. Good idea.

I'm sorry about your troubles, almostajillsandwich . Hope things are going ok now.