Or is this punishment justified?

[pinkberry7258]

I have a 5 year old who has taken to acting up a lot lately, kicking screaming calling names ect. It's really upsetting and I'm not sure where he's getting it from tbh but it's at its worst when he doesn't get his own way. Last week for instance DH dropped over to mil and my son wanted to go out to play. It was cold out so DH said no and my son had a hissy fit. DH left our son with mil to go to the shop and when he came back 20 mins later she had allowed him out to play. Today I had another incident with my son and after I told him if it continued he'd get no pancakes. He went mental so I told him he wasn't getting any pancakes now and I spoke to mil about it as I had to leave him with her for an hour for an appointment. I've since found out she gave him pancakes and I feel once again undermined as a parent and short of not letting her mind him again I'm not sure what to do? Was his punishment too severe?

I would say that it doesn't really matter if the punishments were on the harsh side (and I think that depends on how badly he was stropping, whether he understood the consequences, etc- you're best judge of that). The point is that your MIL undermined you and your husband, and that shouldn't happen.

It's hard to know without seeing it. 5 year olds still tantrum, they don't have the capacity for delayed gratification yet, that doesn't come until 7/8 years old.

What matters most is if it feels like it's working to you, and you're comfortable with giving out these consequences. You don't have to punish to discipline, discipline means 'guidance'. If my kids kick off, for whatever reason, I find I naturally use a Listen-Validate response. 'I can tell you're upset about X. You wish it was Y. It's hard when things aren't going as we want.' I might tell them about when I wanted to do something and couldn't, and I felt frustrated. Usually they then suggest a way I could have handled my situation, and I tell them to think of a way they could handle theirs. At no point does their tantrum result in them getting what they wanted, but it does get them some connection with me.

Disclaimer: Sometimes, they are fucking nightmares. And I lose my shit and have to walk away. I try to explain afterwards that I lost my temper and I could have handled it better, but I think it's ok to show we are human too.

Your MIL shouldn't be undermining you no matter what

If you say no, it means no.

Not no from me but nanny can do it

My MIL also does this. I can't allow dd to be left with her now as she gives in and undermines dh & I. It means I have to drag a tantruming dd everywhere with me (I don't live near my parents) but it's better than dd thinking that it doesn't matter how she behaves as her grandmother will let her get her own way.

Sorry I'm no help really just wanted to let you know you're not alone

Thankyou holdbacktheriver. I appreciate that as I sometimes do feel I'm better off just taking him with me.

I was undermined today by my husband. 5 year old son was sitting on the top of the sofa. A few days prior he broke one of our lights by pulling on it as he was climbing up.

So I told him to get down, which resulted in..
Me - can you get down from there, I've told you before
Him - no
Me - get down please
Him - no
Me - I said get down
Him - no I don't want to
Me - get. down. now.
Him - I DONT WANT TO GET DOWN

It was already 7pm so I told him that he was going to bed. He started shouting at me. So I said "well you're definitely going to bed now, you don't talk to me like that"

Aaaaand husband says "you're being unreasonable." And tells 5 year old to sit with him while he finished his tea then they'd go up together.

I was fuming because husband had been at work so hadn't seen how he had been since we got home!

She shouldn't be undermining you but on the other hand I can kind of imagine her not wanting to enforce discipline for things that didn't even happen on her "watch" if you see what i mean. She probably just wants a nice time with her grandson and might have been looking forward to doing pancakes, rather than having to deal with a stroppy five year old.

I would choose to remove something at home so MIL can't interfere.

In my experience you don't meter out a punishment that you yourself cannot follow through with. Except of course your partner, he should back you up.

Both my parents, and my parents in law have an attitude of 'grandparents rules' in certain circumstances, i.e minor things, depending on the situation. I have no problem with this, as I remember my own grandparents being the same. The sort of thing your parents wouldn't allow you to do as a child, like having ice cream before dinner, is suddenly okay to do when they are grandparents and have the grandchildren visiting for example.
However neither set would deliberately undermine myself or my husband.
My DF really didn't agree with a punishment I set over the Xmas hols (complete tech ban) and felt it unfair that I wouldn't allow them on the xbox with their uncles, BUT he didn't even so much as say so in front of my DC, nor try to let them on it without my permission.
My MiL and I have clashed over things in the past, but again, she wouldn't undermine me on the important things. She picks up my youngest DC for me so I can work, and takes care of her for an hour or so after school, I feel totally secure in the knowledge that she will not break my 'rules' and will not allow DC to do something that I would never allow.

I think it doesn't matter whether your punishments are deemed too harsh or not! The fact is that your MiL is undermining you both, and that is NOT on.

But why are you making decisions and then leaving your mil to face the consequences?
If someone is doing me the favour of looking after my child I will try and make the time they are staying with that person as easy as possible.
Your mil MAY feel that as she has no hand in doling out the punishment nor should she have any hand in carrying out the punishment.
If you want to stop the tantrums then manage them and the consequences yourself.

Why couldn't he go out in the garden to play? His 5, he'll be fine in chilly weather with a hat on.

Your mil shouldn't have done the opposite to what your dh said but I can see her point.

Your MIL is teaching him that throwing a tantrum will get him what he wants. So of course he'll tantrum more.

Your mil is doing you a favour by taking care of your kid. Your punishments should be immediate and over with by the time your dc arrives to your mil. It's not her job to discipline.

My dh does this. He sets punishments and then goes out to leave me to deal with the consequences for a punishment I didn't agree with in the first place. Bonkers. If you set a punishment, stay to follow it through, don't farm it out to someone else

Maybe you and your partner should be the ones to punish your kid, rather than expecting your MiL to do it. Esp if you are going to punish things like wanting to go out to play or use food as a punishment.

It's tough on your mil to have to enforce consequences of a decision she didn't make.

A five year old should have consequences straight away. It's not right to say no pancakes then go out and leave your Mil to deal with the punishment. She wasn't the one who told him no pancakes and Grandparents do spoil their Grandchildren.
Also although she shouldn't have undeminded your Dh when he said your Ds couldn't go out to play I can see why she did. A five year old won't come to any harm outside in cold weather.
So I think it's a bit harsh not wanting to leave your Ds with her again