Deported grandmother : what is the government trying to prove

[alwaysprepare]

There is a story of a woman originally from Singapore who lives here and has been married to a Brit for 27 years, they have 2 kids and a grandchild.
Her parents had been ill and she has spent the last few years going home to take care of them. They have now passed away. She had indefinite leave to remain which has been revoked and was apparently taken on a Sunday by authorities and sent to a detention centre before being put on a flight with £12 and the clothes on her back. Her husband is poorly after a heart bypass, I think it was.

You are not allowed to leave the country for a certain amount of time on the visa she has, but she probably needed to take care of ailing parents. Also Singapore does not Allow dual citizenship which maybe why she did not apply for UK passport as that probably would have been tricky for her parent emergencies etc.

We are no better than Trump.

Sorry cannot paste it right now, but it's on Google.

Wow the handcuff photo is disgusting. Defo not nice for people.

How would the Singaporean government (or any other country that disallows dual citizenship) know if one had taken an additional citizenship, out of interest?

I have seen plenty of Middle Easterners with US citizenship (which did not used to allow most duals) from countries which don't permit citizenship duality travelling back and forth using both passports as appropriate - clearly, the ME is a bit chaotic admin wise, but do nations have to let other nations know?

Yes I think they do hefzi and I wouldn't risk it. I think you could potentally get in a hell of a lot of trouble for it.

For whoever said that NZ does not have requirements for assets, etc. they do. Some friends of ours were planning to emigrate but were unable to get everything sorted before the magic age of 56 so were then told that they had to have a large amount to invest while there (can't remember the exact figure but it was well over half a million

Sorry, posted too soon. I agree with those saying that anyone here on any particular visa/immigration basis has a responsibility to know and follow those terms. We know some South Africans who live and have a very successful business here, they have requirements on when and how long they can leave the country for and can tell you to the nearest minute

if you deliberately decide to live outside of your country for a long time you should try to adopt enough love and commitment for the country you have decided you want to stay in to have the passport to match. By keeping your old passport you are refusing to commit to your new home and if people feel that way they may as well go back to the country which they love more.

I've just posted a very lengthy and angry post and decided to delete.

You have absolutely NO IDEA of what it means to live in a different country if you think like this.
You also have no idea what it means to actually commit to a country nor the complexity of living in a dual citizenship relationship etc etc.
People do not stay for 20 years in a country they don't love in some ways. Nor do they stay that long if they are not committed and full member of the society.
Resuming the 'commitment' to where you live to a piece of paper wo looking at how involve in the community the person is, how they are mixing within the country etc etc is naive at best.

May be you should do a bit more research on the subject first.

I have given it a lot of thought. If scotland leaves the uk I hope I will be considered to have English nationality as I grew up there. I never chose to emigrate from the uk and would not be prepared to become a scottish citizen, with a scottish passport by default. I would hope I could remain a UK citizen as I will no longer want to stay here as it will not be in the uk. I would not seek to keep my uk passport while not living there.

Cheers for your angry post deletion though red.

Bit judgey though

Thanks, YER it's one of those things I have always wondered about!

But if people think that the UK immigration is the worst system in the developed world, you've led very sheltered lives! Reflect also on the reason for these laws - it's the myriad of people who were abusing it that are responsible: for whatever reason (possibly, actually, article 8?) it's been deemed better to come down hard on everyone, rather than police the process to stop those who would abuse it at source. A bit like benefits cuts-because of the tiny minority who game the system, successive governments have decided to punish the majority as an alternative to preventing cheats in another way.

My SIL is non-Christian, non-white: what's worse is that my brother didn't begin a relationship with her when they were both in the same country. They got together on Skype, he spent one week there for work, back in the country they'd met in and become friends in, then a week later in the year when they got engaged. She came to the UK 6 or so months later for a fortnight, then the next time they saw each other was the wedding in her country. He then returned to the UK to complete things to do with immigration, and she was able to come about 4 months later. They had no issues with immigration - despite the unconventional courtship: it did cost my brother thousands in fees and lawyers and was a pita, but he just made sure he followed the regulations to the letter. He was pretty pissed off that if she'd been an EU citizen, or he'd been citizen of another member state, he could have brought her to the UK without all of that - but that's what happens when EU citizenship trumps that of all other nations. And it turned out lucky that they required him to show he had enough to keep her-she's been looking for a job for 2 years now.

This story is being swung to be about Brexit. It's not - it's just another visa violation story: similar to that spate of stories in the Guardian last year, of EU citizens being told to prepare to leave. Once you read the story, it was clear that they hadn't submitted their passports with their application, which is a requirement - and why they were denied (which triggered the form rejection letter). It's a non-story from a news perspective, without the Brexit hook.

"By keeping your old passport you are refusing to commit to your new home"

And that hints at the pejorative we were talking earlier. Why is only one country home? Why is commitment to family, work and community measured only by way of severance of those things elsewhere? What makes the UK so special that people have to give up their past?

From what I can see, as a Singaporean citizen, she does not require a visa to VISIT the UK. So she may have falsely come here as a tourist without a visa with no intention to leave the country.

Hence the deportation.

Did she not know of the terms of her visa?

Why would she, when she has been in UK for 27 years with a husband, kids and a grandchild.

The fucking rules change every fucking day, according to some governments whim! It's up to them to make people know about it!

All it shows is the whole administration around it is a shambles.

There's a whole thread dedicated to us taking care of our aging parents, kids, job, home.
She can't help it that her aging parents lived in Singapore.

I can't believe the cold-heartedness of posters on here.

I bet his woman gave more to UK in her 27 years than some.

Well, thank fuck I don't live there anymore. Bunch of cold-hearted govt. bastards, Only care about taxing you lot for their wages and corruption.

It isn't, but I think it is special enough for them to commit to the future and that is my point.

"And that hints at the pejorative we were talking earlier. Why is only one country home? "

Blame Singapore.

Here is a list of XENOPHOBIC countries not allowing dual citizenship.

Andorra
Austria
Azerbaijan
Burma
Bahrain
Botswana
Brunei
Chile
China
Czech Republic
Denmark
Ecuador
Estonia
Fiji
India
Indonesia
Iran
Japan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kiribati
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Malaysia
Mauritius
Mexico
Myanmar
Nepal
Netherlands
Norway
Papua New Guinea
Peru
Poland
Romania
Singapore
Slovakia
South Korea
Thailand
Venezuela
UAE
Zimbabwe

And here are some non-xenophobic countries permitting dual nationality/heritage:

United Kingdom
USA

The problem here is the RACIST SINGAPOREANS.

Had this lady been from the Philippines, there would have been a simple solution - move to UK in 1988, marry acquire UK citizenship in 1992, live happily ever after.

Don't blame the British government.

"I bet his woman gave more to UK in her 27 years than some."

Er, that would be NO.

She lived in the UK from 1988 to 1992.

Then she moved to Singapore.

She has not lived in the UK since 1992.

She has VISITED twice since then, in 2003 til 2005, and then from 2013 till present (the latter visit illegal in some large part)

She has lived in the UK for only four years! Not even CLOSE to 27.

YERs I hope they got rid of the photo. Haven't looked lately. I understand why it was there. UKBA wanted to show they are tough on those who violate the rules. Totally understandable. It's just that people who actually look at the site are likely to be the ones most eager to follow the rules! So it seemed counterproductive, as well as insulting.

Like I said I'd want to know more about this woman's exact trajectory before I pass judgment. Maybe she is trying to game the system: we all know enough people who are slippery, forgetful, or just don't think the rules will apply to them, and that's as true of visa and immigration issues as it is of everything else (say, tax avoidance?). But I'm inclined to not assume the worst of her unless facts prove otherwise, given that in my own experience it's SO easy to fall foul of procedures that are the very opposite of transparent and efficient.

Basically, anyone who wants to do this? GET AN IMMIGRATION SOLICITOR. From the beginning. Only way to get through it.

And, now that all the millions of EU people who are going to have to get processed? Means Brexit is basically a massive employment initiative for a) civil servants b) immigration solicitors. I wonder if I could retrain...

Why would she, when she has been in UK for 27 years with a husband, kids and a grandchild.

FFS read the thread - she HASN'T been in the UK with her family for 27 years! She's spent the last 20 year in Singapore, away from her husband and kids, NOT looking after elderly parents as they died 20 years ago.

"There's a whole thread dedicated to us taking care of our aging parents, kids, job, home.
She can't help it that her aging parents lived in Singapore."

Not the case, in fact she moved to Singapore in 1992 not because of her parents illness but because her family wanted to live in Singapore.

Her mother was ill in 1998 and died in 1999. She lost the right to live in the UK in 1994, after two years of absence.

From what I can see, as a Singaporean citizen, she does not require a visa to VISIT the UK. So she may have falsely come here as a tourist without a visa with no intention to leave the country.

Did you even read the bit she's been in UK for 27 years with a husband, 2 kids and a grandchild??

Here is a list of XENOPHOBIC countries not allowing dual citizenship.

Nothing "xenophobic" - your capitols - about it.

It's to do with security.

"Nothing "xenophobic" - your capitols - about it.

It's to do with security."

I can assure you that is not (always) the case. Many of those countries have barely functioning legal and surveillance systems.

Ifly, have you actually read any of the articles past the headlines?

She has lived in the UK for 4 years only.

from what I can figure out, it is possible to live a long while with (risky but possible) multiple citizneship even when one country nominally bars it.

Not least because I can't figure out the true story, I am on the fence about the Singapore lady. I was acutely aware when I had ILR that it was vulnerable to revoking for all kinds of reasons. I knew full well that it would be very risky to live anywhere else for more than a few months.

"My parents have considerable assets in the millions"

Assets worth millions creates other opportunities for where people get to live.

"Did you even read the bit she's been in UK for 27 years with a husband, 2 kids and a grandchild?? shock"

She hasn't though.

Read the actual facts. www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain