To think it's selfish to deliberately plan to rent out the old house when you buy a new

[jdoe8]

I understand why people do it, its dog eat dog out there and people look after number 1 even if it means it screws others.

But how are the next generation going to ever afford to buy if people carry on doing this?

This makes for depressing reading especially the comments - www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/26/the-sad-cost-of-renting-never-having-somewhere-to-call-home

I don't believe any generation worked any harder, you just had to be lucky and in the right place at the right time. Its very well to say just rent but renters have such poor rights in the UK it's very undesirable.

It's pretty fucked up that the council would give me ~700 pcm to put directly into the pockets of private landlords. These people should be taxed and taxed til they fall down dead with it.

You're being vague makeourfuture.

Just as a thought experiment. Are second home owners open to ideas about how they could help with the housing situation?

Er they are helping, by providing houses for people who can't buy.

Er they are helping, by providing houses for people who can't buy

Dialogue opened! Would you be open to other ideas? A higher tax rate?

No they don't heat

They are investing property as part of their pension plan/kids inheritance etc.

There are not many, on this thread anyway, are doing it for the greater good by helping house those poor souls who may become homeless. They're doing in for their own benefit.

It helps, certainly. But let's not pretend it's a charitable thing to do and most LL's are doing renters a favour.

It's a business plan. Sometimes to the detriment of someone who needs a roof over their heads.

Inkniw I had that option miss but the tenant had also stopped paying 50% of the rent because she thought it was too expensive and she didn't agree with 'her paying my mortgage'. The other 50% was housing benefit (paid direct to landlords at the time but she refused to renew he paperwork so that stopped being paid too). The rent was actually slightly less than other comparable properties on the street and the neighbouring street.
I was pregnant at the time and didn't want to lose £££ whilst waiting for the eviction process to go through the courts. Nor did I want the stress whilst pregnant.
Did I also mention that the tenant had taken out a string of catalogue accounts in my name because she thought it was justified given that she was paying me rent and I could use that rent towards paying the mortgage? Selling to a professional landlord with her as a sitting tenant was the least stressful option for me. Lots of landlords really struggle to get any money for damages / lost rent back especially when the tenant is on a low income and tells the court that they can only afford to repay £5 per month.

We've always had decent tenants.
Most are young professionals saving up to buy so they stay for a couple of years then move into their own place. We're a stepping stone.
Don't think they would stand a chance of getting social housing.
It's what we did, we rented while we saved up a deposit.

Well I'm in Ireland so it's different. Ipay 50%tax on rental income as it's treated as normal income. I have a mortgage so I have to subsidise the house each month to cover that. In Ireland the discussion is that this tax should be reduced so more landlords can enter the rental market and increase supply. If I wasn't taxed so much I could lower my rent.

I was reading that rental property is often less environmentally friendly. Are second home owners open to, in the face of climate change, doing more to increase energy efficiency?

It's not only renters that have to move their children schools. We own, but have had frequent moves due to trying to keep in employment. My eldest never finished any school she started.
People sometimes seem to think that owning is secure. It isn't. And failing to pay a mortgage means we intentionally would make ourselves homeless.

It's both. I am investing in my children's future and providing a house for someone who could not afford to live in that area presently, by renting out my old house. Because I know I will in the future have a house paid off as an asset in that area, does not mean I am not happy about the altruistic service I'm providing.

As it happens, my tenant himself has flats in a different area he rents out. He is able to have his dog in my house which he could not have in a flat.

If they're good, ethical landlords, I don't have a problem with it. People on benefits would be homeless if there weren't any landlords.

I think tenants should have more rights, too, not have to move every time a landlord fancies having their house back, not be allowed to hang a picture and so on. When DP was renting, he wasn't even allowed to change his energy supplier to get a cheaper deal!

Mind you, that landlord was a complete shit. He served notice on one tenant because she had a black boyfriend and he didn't "want her sort" in his property.

I was reading that rental property is often less environmentally friendly.

There's a programme of grants to improve the energy efficiency of private rented properties. I got loads of work done for one of my clients, although I suppose the landlord benefits too.

"Altruistic"

I kind of see where the OP is coming from.

I had a similar twitch last night when I heard someone I swim with saying that he was having an extension built on his house. He is married but has no children at home. His house has four bedrooms. So he and his wife are already rattling around a large house (I've been in it). And now they're making it even bigger (and more expensive).

I do think we need more carrots to encourage people to live in houses that are adequate for their needs, rather than having far more space than they actually need. And I don't really get the second home thing either - if you like going somewhere on holiday, why not just stay in a nice hotel? It is just a status symbol to be able to say you have a second home in Cornwall or whatever.

I don't have a problem with people who keep one house while moving into another - sometimes circumstances require that. For a short while, before we were married, my husband and I had two flats because the mortgage was cheaper than my commute from his flat would have been. But it was for less than two years.

"Altruistic" grin

Yes it is probably silly.

But perhaps, again, a better way to look at is that many think the housing market is dysfunctional. It certainly played a part in the crash, and our ongoing challenges (public debt, poor predictions for future tax receipts, cuts in spending for services like the NHS, disability, etc.)

A good point can be made that the rental market is at least involved in this. There are several good posts above regarding this. We will, all of us, be required to do our part in weathering these conditions.

"Altruism", then, can be viewed as acknowledgement of this. I think we can make it, just....but it will require cooperation, and a strong sense of social responsibility.

You're criticising someone for improving their house? Just because they don't have kids living with them? Ahahahaha, Jesus - only on Mumsnet!

We have a holiday home in Cornwall. It's miles better with young kids than a hotel. And DF likes to give friends and family holidays there as a present. most recently a family friend who has 4 kids and hasn't had a holiday in over 10 years. But hey, she should have paid for a hotel too, right?!

I loved my old landlord and lived very happily for years and years in an area I could never have afforded to buy in!

Second homes as holiday homes help keep the economy going in some places. We let ours out and the guests visit the local shops, cafes, pubs, attractions. We use local tradespeople and provide a welcome pack with some produce from independent chocolate/cheese shops in the area.
Like Applebite we also let friends go for peanuts and family for free.
No one could live there permanently as it has a clause saying so and is not really big enough.

Students have to live somewhere, so someone is going to make money out of it, so I may as well have some of it.

So now people who build an extension on their home when they don't have children are selfish too fairweather? I wonder if the builders he employed to do it and the suppliers whose materials he purchased felt it was selfish to be spending his money keeping people in employment.

Fairweather We rent abroad, a large 4 bed detached, just dh and I, and the cats, and ds during holidays as he is at uni in the UK. My Mum comes to stay sometimes. We can afford it. In the UK, my house is also a large 4 bed detached, which we bought pre ds, and will move back to when we return to the UK.

I don't want to live in a rabbit hutch, I like having space, and can pay for it. Why shouldn't we be able to do so? Our UK house is our third having started with a one bed cottage, and moved to somewhere larger each time. We may downsize at some stage, but it will have to the right property for me to move. I am not going to do so to suit anyone except dh and I.

How utterly ridiculous to suggest that people should be curtailed from buying (with their own herd earned cash) properties that some might see as too big for their needs.
Even if we could dictate what people spent their money on; how would this help those who can't afford a mortgage?
Who in the name of God would scale down their own possessions out of some sort of misplaced empathy with those who don't have the means to have similar?

Uk urgently needs rent controls.

I'm not sure it does TeaCake5. I think it needs more social housing where people want to live and can find work and a shift in the mindset that we should own our homes and it's a failure not to do so.

If there were significant numbers of social properties available for rental, that were well maintained and nice to live in and had sensible rents, that would help to suppress the market for private rental and would help keep rents lower. Right to buy would not be an option in my utopia.

I would happily pay more tax for better services. I would also pay money into some sort of co-op that provides social housing as described if State sponsored social housing is not an option.