To think it's selfish to deliberately plan to rent out the old house when you buy a new

[jdoe8]

I understand why people do it, its dog eat dog out there and people look after number 1 even if it means it screws others.

But how are the next generation going to ever afford to buy if people carry on doing this?

This makes for depressing reading especially the comments - www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/26/the-sad-cost-of-renting-never-having-somewhere-to-call-home

I don't believe any generation worked any harder, you just had to be lucky and in the right place at the right time. Its very well to say just rent but renters have such poor rights in the UK it's very undesirable.

I (a home owner) think that rents should be capped at a level appropriate for the area, so that no-one would end up paying more in rent than they would have done on a 90% mortgage for property

I'm not an economist, but how does that help? My house is rented out at a rate that wouldn't pay a 90% mortgage on it at its current value (but does mine, because I bought it 12 years ago, and have been steadily paying it off) - when I was looking for a place to rent a couple of years ago (home counties, 20 train ride to central London), the rent was far cheaper than the mortgage would be to buy it (I know because the identical house next door but one was sold for twice what my rent would have got a mortgage for)

Yes it does! Buy to let has affected house prices.

And me deciding to sell as opposed to rent it out is going to fix that?

I don't understand why you think people are selfish cunts for renting out their property to someone who needs a home but couldn't afford to buy it.

I don't think housing shifting from owner-occupied to renting (or in the opposite direction) will make much long-term difference to the cost of housing. That's determined by supply and demand, so if you want cheaper housing, either kill a lot of people and prevent them being replaced by immigrants, or build more houses.

So no it's not selfish to rent out a house.

Buy To Let affects house prices. It's basic, I don't understand why people don't get that .

Selfish? Everyone is selfish. That is what drives human behaviour.

Except you, OP, a rare altruist among us. [sceptical]

There is a housing shortage. That is the responsibility of successive governments - irrespective of politics. It is not the tesponsibility of private landlords.

Honestly if they just spread the country's money throughout the Uk, rather than having this ridiculous surplus of amenities, jobs and attractions in London, the housing problem would vanish.Don't blame individuals who are trying to save money for bad govt decisions. We are so South East focused in the Uk, it is completely barmy.

Usually deciding to buy/sell property is a move which will affect your family and its finances for the rest of your life. One of the most important financial decision you might have to make.
I might be selfish, but I am making these decisions from an economical and financial point of view, not from an altruistic one.

No I sold when I bought my next place. I saw the figures on paper and it made sense to keep it on. But I have morals and would of felt like a selfish cunt.

Basic supply and demand rules are that increased supply reduces price, decreased supply increases price. Increased demand increases price, reduced demand decreases price.

So what we have is a lack of supply and a lot of demand. Which keeps prices high. The solution is to increase supply i.e. build more homes. You could maybe slightly decrease demand by deterring landlords buying more but personally I don't think that's a major issue. Many of the homes rented out are for family reasons rather than people with shedloads of money wanting to build their property empire.

But people are their own worst enemies. Here the plan to build a significant number of homes is scuppered by nimbyism. What they don't seem to see is that their own dc won't be able to live here (i.e. near them) if these houses don't get built. It would reduce house prices in the area and provide a supply of homes. So when I see yet another petition about an important tree or this being a historic site or there'll be too much traffic, it just makes me sigh. It seems some will never learn to share.

Oh and private landlords are not the issue IMO, right to buy and tenants rights are.

I am from France, and when we moved to London years ago and rented, we couldn't believe how bad the situation was for tenants (break clause? contract for a limited time only? fees payable to renew the contract?...).

To compare, in France you rent for an unlimited period of time, you can give notice at any point (usually 3 months notice), the rent can only increase yearly based on the inflation rate. The landlord can only evict you if you are at fault (not paying etc.) or in specific situation: he wants to sell the property, he wants to occupy it himself, etc.
Oh and capped rents have been introduced where there is a shortage of properties.

I have a BTL , its to sell when my daughter gets married to pay for her wedding and deposit for her first house. And no I don't feel guilty at all, its for my kid!! The tenants had a bad credit history and couldn't have got a mortgage anyway.

I am very lucky in that I bought in a good area a good few years ago. Flat is now worth well into the 7 figures. If I sell it rather than letting it out, is that really going to help people get on the ladder? But it might be affordable for 2 young professionals or even 2 professional couples to rent and have the opportunity to live in central London.

Blame the governments who didn't invest in infrastructure whilst simultaneously allowing mass immigration to take place BEFORE sorting out the place so it was ready to receive people. Don't blame people trying to do their best for their security and their families.

Maybe OP is bitter because she sold at the wrong time? Or maybe she really does just make decisions based on altruism rather than for her own family. And maybe she also farts perfume and shits magical glitter dust

Everyone is selfish. That is what drives human behaviour.

Given our current system, it is hard not to be, but we areally facing challenges requiring something more.

I don’t understand when people developed this sense that being a home owner is a god given right? There isn’t another country which is so obsessed about being a home owner. Throughout history this country has supported a strong rental market without problems – look at the set up on a traditional estate – lots of rental properties let on a long term basis.

We have rental properties – I have an obligation to ensure the property has an up to date electrical test, gas safety, OFTEC, EPC, legionella, asbestos, fire and CO detectors, chimney sweep – things that home owners have no legal obligation to do in their own house. Whilst some of it makes complete sense, there is an aspect of renters not being responsible for their own safety – nanny state.

With regards to my impact on house prices, no, I don’t feel like a selfish cunt as none of our properties are at all suitable for first time buyers, they’re not typical buy to let and to be honest they have been in the family from a time when we had to house a large workforce, who now (by choice) as a rule don’t want a house with a job.

House prices are fluctuating anyway at the moment and the rental market will only get stronger over the next five years as people sell equity and sit in rented until they can see the longer term view from Brexit, and as a result the house prices will come down. I work in property, I’m a chartered surveyor – people working in stocks and shares are savvy with their investments given their understanding of the industry – if I want to make money out of the housing market with mine, that is my prerogative.

Frilly I guess that's because the private rental market in the UK provides an expensive and above all insecure way of being housed compared to those in the continent. Maybe if tenants had more protection and comeback against landlords who dont keep their properties in good repair, and options other than short term contracts, people would be happier to rent.
As a landlord I would be happy to see legislation to support such changes.

most of the people renting wouldn't be able to afford a home anyway. How many threads on here are full of people earning 18-30K That isn't going to buy you a house in most of this country. House prices would have to fall through the floor for these people to afford a mortgage.

The problem is that our economic and housing system is set up on the assumption that a substantial number of people own their houses.

It's all very well saying that home ownership isn't a right, but in the UK there is now little social housing and few long term tenancies. Alot of housing used to be job related, (farming, domestic, factory towns, new towns), but that doesn't really exist now. Jobs have changed , people don't have jobs for life and they can't be relied upon to pop their clogs shortly after retirement.

Large numbers of people who the system assumed would have paid off their mortgages by retirement are entering middle age renting.

Whether it's moving jobs out of London, encouraging landlords to enter into longer contracts or just building more houses, something has to change.

I'm caught in the rental trap (though trying my hardest to claw my way out of it!) and I don't hold it against LLs at all. My landlady bought the house I live in as an investment for pension income, and why wouldn't she? It offered by far the best return on her money available at the time. Incidentally, she's very fair to me - e.g. hasn't put the rent up in the four and a bit years I've lived here (touch wood!), responds promptly to all maintenance issues - because she wants me to stay here for as long as possible.

If I was ever in a position to BTL, I would do so in a heartbeat. I suppose, technically, it is selfish of me to care more about my own financial future and that of my son than about that of other people, but I won't be apologising for that.

I have just had a look at some of the most prominent economist's analysis of buy to let and the affect on house prices. It's all online if anyone else wants to research it.

They all seem to agree that it does inflate prices, to differing degrees.

It has to, if one in five houses are owned as a buy to let, its 20% of housing stock.

Of course people are selfish, no one is going to give up a source of income for the greater good.

We need more houses, less nimbyism where they are built and hopefully the need to rent will be reduced and back to the traditional market of students, young professionals and very low incomes.

I actually find it really difficult to comprehend why people find it so hard to get on the housing ladder.
I'm 19 and own my own home. Yes, I bought it with my partner, both putting 50% into the deposit and mortgage repayments but we could have bought two much smaller houses if need be.
I have worked since I was 13, and made the difficult decision at 16 to leave school and become a distance learning student so that I could work full time at the same time. I moved out at 16, rented for two years whilst I saved up for deposit, and then went to the mortgage advisors office on my 18th birthday.
I worked really, really hard for my home, and I have prioritised home owning over university so that I can go to university in a few years and not have to worry about owning a home. I will have to work equally hard whilst at uni to continue to pay my mortgage repayments, but it will be doable, especially if I put in the graft now and get a good chunk paid off.
I have received 0 financial help from any of my family, and my DP has borrowed a small amount from his auntie and uncle to pay for the electrics to be redone. Other than that we have borrowed nothing. We are both low earners, but we both work extremely hard. We aren't living in the ideal area right now, and we'd love a bigger garden, but we are working our way up.

the traditional market of students, young professionals and very low incomes.

And people who actually want the flexibility of renting e.g. Because of temporary job relocation.

Dog I'm guessing you don't live in a part of the country where a months rent is over a thousand pounds and flats start a 200k. Because if you did you might understand why people can't just pull together a 50% deposit.

I (a home owner) think that rents should be capped at a level appropriate for the area, so that no-one would end up paying more in rent than they would have done on a 90% mortgage for property

That really wouldn't help matters at all.
There are more costs associated with owning a house than just the mortgage payment. Cyclical repairs are very expensive and of course you have to have buildings insurance as a home owner and if you are prudent life insurance for the outstanding balance of your mortgage (especially if part of a couple).
A landlords cyclical repair bill will in a lot of cases be much more than for a home owner and he might need landlord insurance. I really don't see that many landlords would be willing to rent a property knowing that they are going to be hundreds of pounds in deficit each month.
I do think that rents need to be capped but not at the same level that a mortgage on the property would be. And let's not forget that the person paying the mortgage also takes on the risk of interest rates rising and therefore mortgage payments rising significantly and also of market prices falling.

YANBU. This country is headed down a bad path, treated houses as a commodity rather than as homes.

It's not an absolute rule. I think if someone has to move due to work/life changes and would need to sell at a loss to be able to sell, then maybe it's ok to rent out a first property for a bit to avoid taking a major hit. Or I can see why someone can have an strong emotional attachment to a house and might not want to sell an inherited property ( especially if it was a childhood home) if they can afford to keep it as a family house, or holiday home.

But I think in those circumstances you to mitigate it a bit- rent out to a relative/friend/colleague at mate's rates in exchange for knowing they'll treat the property well and you're cutting them a break to help them save.