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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NHS is actually a myth ? Really long. I am desperate. Please help.

163 replies

ArseHasFallenApart · 26/02/2017 05:33

Namechanged for this - it's identifying - I no longer care.
I have chronic issues with my sacroiliac joint (the joint where your sacrum at the base of your spine attaches to your pelvis). I went to my GP in March of 2015 as it had gone from slipping out every two or three years and my needing a Chiropractor to replace it to me being able to reduce it myself in a certain position and with pain relief/anti-inflammatory meds.
GP sent me to a Physiotherapist but she told me the condition I described did not exist. I politely told her that there was fixative surgery available for it (called the i-fuse system) and that I suspected that ultimately that is what I would need. She was adamant I was wrong. I returned twice more. On neither of these occasions had the P'ist even Googled my condition and refused to accept that SI joint dysfunction was a thing. On the third visit she hinted that she thought my condition may be psychosomatic despite that you could fry and egg on it. I felt that if she did not know about SI joint dysfunction how could she help me? I stopped going as I was getting worse not better and returned to my GP.
GP sent me to a local consultant orthopaedic surgeon - A.

By this time during the episodes of dysfunction, the two bones were completely separated and were grating against each other (crepitus)
A was also sceptical and sent me for MRI and Xrays. As during both of these I was still, there was no abnormality detectable by him on the images. A sent me to see a surgeon whom he had attended a lecture by regarding the i-fuse system repair of SI joints but A could not recall his name. This referral was on 17th Dec 2015.
I got my appointment after 36 weeks of waiting but as soon as I said sacroiliac joint the consultant (B) said a mistake had been made and that he was the wrong man for me. He was spinal and I needed pelvic and that he would see to it that I was moved over to the list of C, the correct consultant for me.
I then had three hospital admissions in three days. I am a hard nut but I had a cluster of episodes and was sent home with morphine and diazepam and told that hospital admissions for this would be my 'new normal'. A - the original referring surgeon was informed of my admissions.
After this, I rang to see where I was on the list to see C. I was on the general list and I asked to be moved to urgent as my condition was clearly deteriorating. This did not happen.
After another episode which was on a Friday night where frankly I needed hospital admission but took morphine and diazepam and toughed it out as getting an ambo here on a Friday would have been a stretch, I rang again to see how close I was to seeing C. I also got signed off work at this stage as the joint was and is completely separated - I have a fractured pelvis in essence. I begged my GP to help me, via a letter and I had a call that afternoon saying the GP had asked A to intervene on my behalf.
I was told I had only waited 14 weeks so they had reset the clock from when I saw B (at 36 weeks)!!!!!

I was gutted and rang the head of the orthopaedic unit at the hospital C works out of, explained I had actually been referred on the 17th Dec 2015 and I was given an appointment six weeks later ( the earliest I could be seen by him). This appointment was this Friday just gone (24th) I know this is identifying but I no longer care! So when I saw C I had waited 62 weeks.
C said I needed an injection in my SI joint, the result of which is diagnostic. The waiting list for this is three months. If my issue is diagnosed as SI joint, the waiting list for the op is a year! He would see me in 6 months.
I can only stand for about twenty minutes. I am in bed 90% of the time and have been so since early Jan when I got signed off work. My DH helps me shower and is caring for me generally but I nursed him through cancer in 2014 so he is cool with this - bless him!

So.....I said I can't wait a year!! I will be sacked from my job, I will be one big bedsore and addicted to diazepam and morphine by then. I am only on SSP now too of course. Also, worryingly, because the left side is separated entirely, the right side is now taking the strain and is starting to give me pain.
C said (cos I asked) I can have the injection done next week for £600 privately. I can have the op done in March for £9,500. I have made arrangements for the injection to be done privately as at least then I am formally diagnosed. The rest I need to think about as I would have to get a loan but if I am going to off work for a year (if my boss kept my job open which I doubt - it's a small company and a bit niche) I would lose the cost of the op in wages so logically I need to pay for the op don't I?
If I wait a year I will also inevitably have to have the other side repaired too? I am now on week one of that years wait so I guess I could pay for the left side to be repaired and use the NHS list one for the right side if that also needs doing providing they keep me on the list?
In all of this I asked to see the original referral letter from A sent 17th Dec 2015. I was astonished. It bore no real resemblance to the consultation where I had told him how my condition had gone from it dislocating rarely (and needing chiropractic) to frequently and it now being so slack I could get it back myself but consequently it also came out equally as easily and was utter utter agony in the process. That I was afraid to drive lest it dislocate (it is disabling. I see yellow spots and need gas and air just to get off the ground) ie I now needed to be dealt with urgently and that was back in 2015. He also got my profession wrong and the whole tone was flippant (but he was sceptical). Crucially, also, he had made no attempt to find out the name of the surgeon that deals with this problem so I could be seen by the correct person, just that he had attended a lecture by him in the past. This goes a long way to explaining why I was seen by B and not C in the first place at the 36 week stage.

I can walk short distances only. It grates. You can hear it.    I can stand for 20 minutes before I can't bear the pain.  I can't drive or function at all in any meaningful way. I can't work, earn money or pay tax (which I have done since 1979).  I normally do 10 hour shifts with no breaks I am very fit and active ordinarily.

I don't smoke, I rarely drink. I am 5;4" and weighed 75k kilos at the beginning of this but have made an effort (to eat almost nothing as I am using no calories) and have lost three kilos as I know I need to be lighter to help with my recovery and re-hab so I am trying to do everything right.
A fortnight ago a neighbour who is twenty stone got shit faced on whiskey and fell down the steps to his lawn. He fractured a joint that was repaired the next day with pins and plates.

AIBU to actually believe that the NHS is not actually there? The free at the point of need stuff is nonsense. My point of need was in 2015. I have cost the NHS since then (admissions/drugs) and am looking likely to cost them an awful lot more. I am also not paying tax into the system either.
I feel bitter that I will have to pay for my own treatment or wait a year of being in bed nursed by my long suffering DH. DH's recent chest scan was not clear and he is probably looking at having an anomalous mass removed from his chest later this year (we are hoping it's not metastesized cancer from the primary removed in 2014?) He has had life changing family stuff to deal with over the winter too and we are living a nightmare right now with that alone.

I'm sorry this OP is immense but there have been so many mistakes made, I have made mistakes - I should have chased and checked and chased and checked. I don't know whether to be angry with A for the crummy initial letter and then doing nothing since despite being informed of my plight by the hospital last September and my GP this January. Cross with the hospital for re-setting the clock to zero or what?

Can anyone give me any advice on what to do to or do I just have to take out a loan and get myself mended, hope for the best and suck it up?

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 26/02/2017 10:38

Technically, aren't we all doing the same through our NI contributions?

NI contributions just go into the general tax pot. There's no relationship between what people pay in NI and what gets spent on the NHS.

As already pointed, the UK spends less per head on health than most other rich countries (about 30% less than Germany and about 10% less than France). We live in a country where people prefer low taxes to good public services.

Koala101 · 26/02/2017 10:43

Being a medical professional this all sounds a like it's "in your head" to be honest. We always see people like you who have told themselves (and their family) about some obscure diagnosis and have entirely convinced themselves they need some specific treatment and when it doesn't happen make a huge fuss. Pay for it to be done privately, and live with the consequences (my guess = chronic pain). Stop wasting nhs time and funding on your illness which quite frankly it appears that no sensible medic wants to touch with a barge pole.

PacificDogwod · 26/02/2017 10:47

Koala, unsupportive at best, inflammatory otherwise Hmm

SanitysSake · 26/02/2017 10:51

Koala.. Yowzers, that was harsh! Shock

Want to disclose what part of the medical profession you're in?

Mortuary technician per chance?!!!

andpeggy29 · 26/02/2017 10:52

I have issue with my sacroiliac joint. Go to placates and it doesn't cause me trouble anymore

PlayOnWurtz · 26/02/2017 10:52

Usually patients know what's wrong with them. I know what is wrong with me. I have pushed Dr's to diagnose me so I can access treatments. I don't say "I think this is wrong I need this doing" I give my history, say I suspect I have this where do we go from here.

The nhs fails chronic pain patients like me and the op. It shows what a dire system it is and always has been. If you have a condition that will kill you it works. Look at that hospital programme, it went for the glory hunting life saving operations being cancelled. It didn't show Doris having her hip replacement cancelled for the 10th time. It didn't show me being kicked off the neurologists list because my problem is chronic. It didn't show my dc having their orthopaedics appointment cancelled 3 times. The nhs has ALWAYS been like this for people like us. It's shit.

WayfaringStranger · 26/02/2017 11:00

I have complex pelvic and SI joint problems, so I have sympathy. I rarely get any reprieve and only when I'm lying on my back surrounded by pillows and in a certain position. Unfortunately, this isn't helpful when I need to earn money, take children to school, prepare food for said children and all the rest.

I hear your pain and acknowledge your suffering. This is absolutely and categorically unacceptable. However, I do wonder if you need to actually have another MRI of your back and pelvis. I am concerned that you might spend the money and find it isn't your main problem, it may be referred pain. My pelvis is unstable and my SI joint has become damaged due to this. Fixing the SIJ won't solve the problem and I am wondering if this might be the case for you. If you can afford it, an MRI of your pelvis and entire spine seems to be a really positive step in the right direction.

atheistmantis · 26/02/2017 11:07

I needed an operation last year which the NHS weren't prepared to do, they accepted that it was medically necessary but didn't have the resources, plus they failed to diagnose the problem until I went private (with the same consultant). NHS? What NHS?

AwaywiththePixies27 · 26/02/2017 11:12

Being a medical professional this all sounds a like it's "in your head" to be honest. We always see people like you who have told themselves (and their family) about some obscure diagnosis and have entirely convinced themselves they need some specific treatment and when it doesn't happen make a huge fuss

Hmm
AwaywiththePixies27 · 26/02/2017 11:17

It's actually extremely hard to start legal action against the NHS. They have some bloody good solicitors working for them.

Koala being a medical professional, what do you do? Just wondering what qualifies you to tell the OP, on an internet forum, that it's all 'in her head' as you so succinctly put it. If you do work on the frontline, may I suggest you work on your bedside manner?

Heartbroken47 · 26/02/2017 11:25

As this is a long term condition you should be entitled to Personal Independence Payment which may help towards your finances. You can claim this even if you are employed.

You have been treated appallingly and I think you should document this into a formal complaint which may see your treatment prioritised on NHS. Every area has NHS complaints advocacy available - your local Healthwatch will be able to advise.
Best of luck

Foureyesarebetterthantwo · 26/02/2017 11:31

After years of these types of escapades, with my husband's notes going missing at a well-known London hospital so he was left in pain for nearly two years whilst he went back on/off/on the waiting list, I've discovered the best point at which to pay to go private to speed things up- which is to pay to see the initial consultant. As the OP states, if you are waiting half a year or a year, that's another year in pain. Find out who it is you want to see, then phone their secretary and ask for a private appointment, I've done this three times now and the price is about £150-300 and waiting not more than two weeks. Once you are seen, they can then send you for tests/treatment via the NHS. The consultants I have known are happy to do this and take much more interest in your case once they have seen you.

I've done this for my husband and my dd and we have then sat on waiting lists for surgery which came quickly as we would take a cancellation. Talk with the secretary of the scanning department/test site, and you may be able to pick up a cancellation, I picked one up recently for the same day!

It shouldn't work like this, and it favours the sharp-elbowed middle classes, of which I am proud to be a member when I'm fighting for my family's health and to avoid serious illness.

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/02/2017 11:35

Koala

The attitude of many of the medical staff working for the NHS is broken and if you wish to follow this sheep like mentality, I feel sorry for you. In many cases, you do more harm than good to the poor souls, who genuinely believe your diatribe.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 26/02/2017 12:10

A fortnight ago a neighbour who is twenty stone got shit faced on whiskey and fell down the steps to his lawn. He fractured a joint that was repaired the next day with pins and plates.

There's only one thing for it then OP. You got any vodka or anything in the house to also get shitfaced on too? See if your neighbours got any whiskey left Wink

Seriously though. Don't do that. My Mum had pins in her legs. Not through getting shitfaced though, she was left with an undiagnosed dislocated hip as a child for years and it needed a lot of rectifying when they finally found it.

Monkeypuzzle32 · 26/02/2017 12:41

Arse this is your life so I completely understand you wanting to get it sorted-you have to asap or it will impact the rest of your life-I will pm you the healthcare I use, have a look at it and see if it would cover you.

ArseHasFallenApart · 26/02/2017 12:52

Koala I am a Veterinary Nurse (Registered) I have seen more separated SI Joints than you have had hot dinners! I qualified in 1984 I started my Veterinary career in 1981. In animals they pop much easier than in humans due to their being on all fours they tend to dislocate as a 'safety valve' to save the femurs fracturing in RTA's etc.. The joints are backed up by whopping ligaments and the ligs hold it all in place until the joints knit again. Because we are bi-pedal all the weight of our top half is 'through the pelvis' and the mechanicals are different and worse for us as we were not designed to be upright.

If there is any doubt in your mind though A examined me and heard and felt and located the crepitus and also looked at the rest of the spine on Xray and MRI. Apart from a slightly narrowed lumbar disc space which I knew about there is NAD.

OP posts:
ArseHasFallenApart · 26/02/2017 13:02

Away Voddy it is then. Seriously it is galling. I want to work. I have always worked. It's a filthy dirty job and I regularly lift ridiculously heavy dogs and turn them when under anaesthetic etc. It's what I do though. I do NOT have a vivid imagination. I do not get shittered any more I look after myself but the piss head with the break gets the breaks! The Wednesday before I was signed off I went with the Vet to PTS a dog. The owner had already sedated her because she had gone loopy. She weighed fifty kilos. We did the deed, rolled her onto a stretcher and then between us we carried her out and ooofed her over the lip of the vets boot so we could drive her back to the surgery. There is no way of not doing any of that. It is my job. Lifting more than half of the dog (as I am taller than the vet) and the stretcher almost shoulder height to get her in the back of a fricking Skoda Scout will have done me no favours at all but this problem has been chronic so I am in no way blaming my boss. If the owner helped at that end, he's not at the surgery end to help so we just crack on down't we?

OP posts:
ArseHasFallenApart · 26/02/2017 13:14

Thanks Monkey I will check my emails.

As for people that sue the NHS it does go against the grain but at what point will all the systems get tightened up so mistakes are made less frequently or do we just hear about the mistakes and all the good stuff goes unspoken about?
Take the point at which I saw B when I was expecting to see C. Who decided to re-set the clock back to zero? How can that have happened? Why isn't there a fail safe procedure in place to make sure that there hasn't already been an earlier referral? It shouldn't be difficult.

I'm not saying I am going to proceed legally but I am already two months wages out of pocket (less SSP) aren't I? If I am off for a year waiting I am going to be thousands of pounds down but the price of bread and eggs won't go down especially for me are they? Much as I hate it, I can see why people sue. It's the sense of injustice and the fact they feel that no-one gives a shit. A made a lazy referral letter. He was told I was in hospital for the third time last September by the hospital doctor via email and he was asked to intervene by my GP on my behalf in January but I have not heard of him being referred to in any of this so I have to assume he has done absolutely nothing to get me seen on anything but the general list.
Paying for the op is a no brainer. I will lose more money thru lost wages by waiting the year than having the op. I think this sort of thing is factored in by the NHS is one explanation?

OP posts:
ArseHasFallenApart · 26/02/2017 13:25

Just reading through and taking notes now

Rumbling Shize!

OP posts:
ArseHasFallenApart · 26/02/2017 13:36

Awaywiththefairies Flowers

PacificDogwood I have just read your explanation of what you think may have gone on and it illustrates my point exactly. If they sent me to see B (because the waiting list to see c was so long) just so a box is ticked and I have been seen by a consultant (albeit one that cannot help me) this is clearly absurd! It is wasting my diesel and time and by far and away more importantly it is taking up an appointment with B that some other poor spinal sod should be using - all of this just for politics and figures! This is why people get angry, look at their diminishing bank account and chuffing well make a claim. It's human nature to hate injustice and unnecessary red tape.

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 26/02/2017 13:37

In the Times magazine today is an interview with Emma Freud and her daughter, who was in so much pain after a back operation she couldn't go to school. She was in agony for 2½ years, and was told she was imagining the pain and there was nothing wrong. Eventually they operated again and there was a pin which was directly touching the spinal cord. Pain went immediately as soon as it was removed. I would have bloody sued (and I really don't say that lightly, I normally thoroughly disapprove of people who sue the NHS, but her education came to a halt and they said it was all in her mind!!!)

Charlieismydarlin · 26/02/2017 13:45

I have got to the stage of realising that the medics who pull the "psychosomatic" or "all in your mind" card are the truly shite ones

I would consider the op privately but I would do more research and get at least two opinions. I would see a good osteopath. Do you need to lose weight? Could you strengthen your core? A weak core and too much weight seems to cause a heap of problems.

Good luck

PacificDogwod · 26/02/2017 14:02

This is why people get angry, look at their diminishing bank account and chuffing well make a claim. It's human nature to hate injustice and unnecessary red tape.

Yes.
No argument from me there.
It is galling.
For the remaining motivated doctors too.

Nobody here can diagnose Arse, and none of us should try.
I have no idea what is wrong with her.
Pain management is a very complex thing and accepting that physical and mental well-being are very intimately linked (although modern society seems to have forgotten that) can go a huge way towards improving somebody's quality of life. Exploring whether the severity of a pain has a psychosomatic component is very important and in No Way implies 'its all in your head'. Making a diagnosis of psychosomatic pain can only happen when all possible purely physical causes have been ruled out - it's probably hugely under diagnosed and people who could get better with good expert psychological therapies are taking painkillers for years and years because, of course, there is no funding for such v expensive services (if you think Arse's example is bad, you should try and get expert MH help... Hmm - particularly if it's in a hurry).

However, Arse is looking for a diagnosis, And then hopefully effective treatment.
I don't think suing is the answer as it is hugely expensive, tying up further resources, including staff time.
But publicising poor practice by writing to health boards, MPs, using social media etc should be done IMO.

ArseHasFallenApart · 26/02/2017 14:05

ThisThingCalledLove No chance of my employer paying for my injection unfortunately. I could rock up at the appointment with my own bottle of Voren 14 all swabbed with alcohol and ready though. That would save about £3.45 plus VAT !!!

Charlie I am vaguely chubby but have lost 3k since I was signed off by going Paleo. I want to lose 3 more before the op.
I have found that I cannot use my core muscles hardly at all because of the risk of having an 'episode' (it dislocates, I collapse, I can't breathe and if I had a gun quite frankly I would shoot myself in the head! I have never had kids. I found MN when I was looking for some help with a different issue and stayed. How you buggers have kids if it is as painful as one of my episodes I take every hat I have, off to you. I feel like I am trying to shit a coconut with antlers on! God bless gas and air!)
Because I can't really use my core I am having to compensate by using my arms and legs more if that makes sense. I have become clumsy and a bit dyspraxic as a result of this. My employer calls me a 'clot' a a result and no he is not being friendly or ironic - just unpleasant :( I get really tired as a result of this too. I have also developed knee problems and plantar fasciitis probably as a result of my arse falling apart ? I can't wait to get fixed as I can start using my core again perhaps? Normally I am really active. I am very muscley and strong.

OP posts:
ArseHasFallenApart · 26/02/2017 14:16

Pacific thanks for your input. I have remembered something else that is tied in to what you said. When I got the first letter from the hospital it said I would see whichever surgeon came to the top first so I photocopied it and set it back with 'I need to see the sacroiliac repair man' written all over it. I then got a letter some weeks later asking if I still need to see someone. I sent back another photocopy saying 'yes I am desperate to see the sacroiliac repair guy please' I then had another identical to the first that said I would be seeing whomever came to the top of the list first. I didn't bother to reply as I just felt like they were taking the piss if I'm honest. I have the originals and copies of what I sent back and the receipt for sending them from the PO.

You are right. They just sent me to see a random to keep their figures tidy. What a waste of resources, effort, time, diesel, parking money. Its a 128 mile round trip for me so I am bloody pissed off about this! This is figure massaging isn't it?

OP posts: