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Primark forced to remove racist t-shirt from sale

296 replies

Soubriquet · 22/02/2017 17:38

link

I don't watch the walking dead. So this reference would have gone straight over my head.

But again I'm the generation who sang catch a tiger by its toe so wouldn't have immediately gotten the racist connection either.

But once it was pointed out, I got it and agree it should definitely be removed

What were they thinking making this?

OP posts:
ThisMorningWentBadly · 22/02/2017 19:05

In the 70/80's there was nothing piggy/tigger about that song.

squishysquirmy · 22/02/2017 19:05

I don't think anyone is saying that "eenie meenie miny mo" by itself is racist. It's the words, together with the image and the historical context that's problematic.

Here's a question to those who think it's "ridiculous" and pc gorn mad etc:
One of the quotes from game of thrones is "Burn them all".

If those words appeared on a t-shirt, together with a star of David, would that be OK?

"Burn them all" = Not racist.
Star of David = Not racist.
The two together along with the historical context = deeply offensive.

PegaGryf · 22/02/2017 19:05

The "bah bah black sheep" comment is such a lazy shut down too. Have you ever genuinely met a black person who's upset about a song about a black sheep?!! No. Because we are humans, not sheep. The song is about sheep.
A song with n*** in it affects me. Sorry that my being upset by racist connotations offends you.
FYI, offended doesn't really cover it. I don't feel "offended" when I hear the n word. I feel terrified, alone, singled out, in danger.
Hiding the thread now. So you can talk about how gingers also suffer racism, and someone called you blonde once.

MrsDoylesTeabags · 22/02/2017 19:06

I remember the racist version from my childhood and it makes me cringe, especially growing up in a predominantly white area, everyone would automatically turn to me when it was being chanted.
It's pretty grim, a T Shirt with eeny meeny miny moe and a bloodstained, barbed wire covered baseball bat?
I've nevver watched TWD so if a saw a person wearing that it would make me wonder what made them choose it and I would probably avoid them.

MrsDoylesTeabags · 22/02/2017 19:08

Cross posted with lots there!
Squishy and Pega YY I agree with both of your comments whole heartedly.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 22/02/2017 19:09

I think it's the lack of context on the t-shirt. A rhyme that could be taken to be racist, next to a picture of a bat with barbed wire round it. If you don't watch the walking dead (and I've never seen it) but you know the rhyme and you know there is a racist version of that rhyme then you'd probably think it's an offensive t-shirt.

This ^^.

Another vote for this as it's the most sensible post on the thread and worth repeating.

BreatheDeep · 22/02/2017 19:09

MyWhatICallNameChange exactly what I was going to say, put much better than I could have said it. I had no idea this was a walking dead thing and if I saw someone wearing it I would think 'wtf, is that meant to be racist?' I wouldn't know they meant zombies!

TheOtherSock · 22/02/2017 19:11

only other fans of the show would have any idea what it was referring to

This is the problem, though. Whatever percentage of the population it is that watch TWD would see you in your shirt and think, "ah, cool, a walking dead fan".

The rest of us have no idea that it's even a reference to anything. We see a bloodied homemade weapon, and a caption, which is a traditional rhyme used for choosing. It's kind of threatening anyway, even if you don't know the racist second line that used to be used - "who shall I pick to attack with this weapon?". If you do know the racist version of the rhyme, it comes across as racist, because of one of the ways that racists operate in a society that ostensibly condemns racism:

One of the things that racists do is make sure they have plausible deniability - they'll say things with loose racist connotations that people will pick up on, but which they can choose to present as completely innocuous. They do this either to give "dog-whistle" signals to like-minded people, or to make others uncomfortable but in a way that they can weasel out of. So, unfortunately, it's not uncommon for people to say racist things that are intended to be racist but which can plausibly be claimed to be not racist.

I have no doubt that most, if not all people who would wear this shirt would be wearing it for the same reason they might wear a TARDIS hoodie or a Los Pollos Hermanos shirt.

ILoveCwtches · 22/02/2017 19:11

We used "nicker" when i was a kid and I always thought it referred to a kind of lobster type sea creature! I only learned the racist version when I was late teens and was horrified to think that anyone overhearing us chanting it might have thought we were saying n**r!

When Negan started to say it in TWD, I had a horrible moment where I thought he was going to use the N-word (given that he is such an objectionable character and I was totally absorbed in the moment, obviously forgetting the fact that it wouldn't be broadcast by a network that doesn't allow "fuck"). TWD is my favourite program but I am glad Primark have removed it, both for the potential to cause offense due to racism and the horrible image that is "Lucille" (the baseball bat). I'm not a delicate flower but I wouldn't want my 3 year old seeing the image (on that or any other t-shirt). I explain enough random shit during my day without starting on Lucille.

squishysquirmy · 22/02/2017 19:12

Sorry in my last post I was saying that the sanitised version of the rhyme is not offensive, the version with N* in is obviously.

Baa baa black sheep on the other hand, has no negative history attached to it. And has never been banned and is still sung in all the toddler groups and nurseries I've seen. The "they banned baa baa black sheep" thing is an urban myth brought up again and again by those with a point to prove about "political correctness".

Summerisdone · 22/02/2017 19:12

I agree that it wasn't the brightest move on Primark's side, but tbh I feel a lot of people have jumped on the band wagon to make a bigger deal out of this than was necessary. Most people only know the variations that are used now a days and many know full well it was a TWD reference and nothing else. I wouldn't have minded as much if just as many people had kicked up such a fuss when it was actually said on TWD, but nope nothing, now everyone and their nan is screaming racism at Primark Hmm

TheOtherSock · 22/02/2017 19:13

Posted too soon: meant to say, I have no doubt most people would be wearing this for the same reason they'd wear other merch, but that doesn't mean that people who don't know about the show aren't going to see it and think "hang on, that looks racist".

Also I xposted with a LOT of people!

CthulhusMum · 22/02/2017 19:15

Love the walking dead but haven't reached this season yet. I agree that out of context it's a white guy holding a nasty looking weapon with an unfinished rhyme that many people know has the n word, so yes I can see how a fan could buy and wear it in innocence and upset a whole lot of people. When I was a child we sang tinker, not sure what a tinker is but I always thought it's a job of some sort?? Like in tinker,tailor,soldier,sailor...

CatchTheRainbow · 22/02/2017 19:15

I think to be offended by it gives it too much power.

No sane compassionate person would ever say that rhyme these days and include the n word.

I don't think we should ever forgot what happened in the past and is still happening now BUT I think by giving THAT word the same power it had years ago is making us take a step back.

SaucyJack · 22/02/2017 19:17

"One of the things that racists do is make sure they have plausible deniability - they'll say things with loose racist connotations that people will pick up on, but which they can choose to present as completely innocuous. They do this either to give "dog-whistle" signals to like-minded people, or to make others uncomfortable but in a way that they can weasel out of."

This cuts both ways tho.

Perhaps those that would look at a branded t-shirt featuring a character from a popular tv show, and would immediately start thinking racist slurs instead of "Walking Dead" should examine their own thought processes before questioning other people's.

FWIW I don't like TWD- and I would NOT be seen undead in that top- but I know perfectly damn well that it isn't racist in the slightest.

Natsku · 22/02/2017 19:18

It was "monkey by the toe" when I was growing up (90s)

Same here, though come to think of it, that might be racist too. I think I prefer the tiger version now.

Agree with those that say its the lack of context that creates the issue on the t-shirt.

NotYoda · 22/02/2017 19:19

The t shirt is a bit sad. A replacement for a personality to have ugly TV merchandise on your belly

NotYoda · 22/02/2017 19:21

... and that's even if the racism doesn't first occur to you.

Why would you want to go round offending people with a cheap bit of cotton probably produced by child labour?

limitedperiodonly · 22/02/2017 19:24

I watch TWD and would understand the reference but it's still not an image I particularly want to see on the High Street whether people think it's racist or not.

It's a shit t-shirt and a shit decision by whichever buyer decided to stock it in Primark. I think the company did the right thing to withdraw it. I wonder how much it's cost them.

ArchNotImpudent · 22/02/2017 19:24

Perhaps those that would look at a branded t-shirt featuring a character from a popular tv show, and would immediately start thinking racist slurs instead of "Walking Dead" should examine their own thought processes before questioning other people's.

Not everyone would recognise a character from 'Walking Dead' though - it might be a popular programme, but that doesn't mean everyone is familiar with its characters, slogans and images.

IHaveBrilloHair · 22/02/2017 19:24

NotYoda
Yes, my daughter has no personality because she wears tv/band t-shirts.
Also, just cheap shops that use child labour, are you sure now?
Do you grow your own cotton?

Plunkette · 22/02/2017 19:25

Perhaps those that would look at a branded t-shirt featuring a character from a popular tv show, and would immediately start thinking racist slurs instead of "Walking Dead" should examine their own thought processes before questioning other people'

SaucyJack I don't even know what to say to that astonishing bit of nonsense.

I can only suggest that those whose really honestly can't see the issue need to read up on a bit of history.

History that is within living memory mind you.

Brushing the past aside condemns us to repeat it.

TheOtherSock · 22/02/2017 19:26

Perhaps those that would look at a branded t-shirt featuring a character from a popular tv show, and would immediately start thinking racist slurs instead of "Walking Dead" should examine their own thought processes before questioning other people's.

Not really. The shirt I saw in the image only has the phrase and the baseball bat; no obvious branding, nothing about a TV show, no TV character, nothing to give me any context at all.

Poetry is powerful - one of the reasons plays and epic poems rhyme in the first place is probably because the rhyme and structure leads you on from line to line, each line reminding you of the next. It's impossible to see "eeny meeny miny mo" and not have your brain supply the next line. If you were exposed to the racist version enough as a child, that will pop up in your head, whether you like it or not.

Out of interest I went to show DP the image of the shirt, without explaining context or anything, just showed him the picture and asked him what he thought without having been given any background on it. He said "beating up black people".

SemiNormal · 22/02/2017 19:28

Even if it isn't intended to be racist it clearly still makes some people have the same emotions they connect with racism as someone upthread said -

A song with n** in it affects me. Sorry that my being upset by racist connotations offends you.
FYI, offended doesn't really cover it. I don't feel "offended" when I hear the n word. I feel terrified, alone, singled out, in danger.*

I know that the poster was talking about the song, perhaps they meant the song only and not the TShirt but I imagine the Tshirt to some people will make them feel how this poster feels about the song. That is NOT okay. I cannot imagine how it feels to be made to feel scared or uncomfortable in your own skin just because of the colour it is but that is the reality for some people. If that TShirt makes just ONE person feel uncomfortable in their own body or makes them feel scared or alone then it is one person too many.

ZippyNeedsFeeding · 22/02/2017 19:28

I don't really think that I have a valid opinion, being white and not ever having had to deal with racism myself. So how I feel doesn't matter. However, if this t-shirt causes other people (who have had to deal with racism and its accompanying hatred) to experience fear or to feel unwelcome or threatened, then taking it off sale was the right thing to do. Even if not every black person who saw it felt that way.