AIBU to ask if anyone's primary kids suffer from extreme tiredness

[Allthewaves]

I'm taking a pot in the dark as not sure what to do.

Eldest child has adhd, pretty classic case controlled by medication.

Middle ds is nearly 6 he is also under the process of diagnosis for adhd but without the hyperactivity, they are pretty sure it's not asd - this has come about as he is having major meltdowns at school, throws things and is then inconsolable over what he has done (and with his brothers history they were keen to start the process on the nhs side) .

This is the query ds(5) is always been tired. He sleeps 12 hours a night (bedtimes 7.30, he falls straight to sleep, barley able to keep his eyes open during his story) but yawns through the day. He told me today that he was so tired and it made him so cross at school today that he drew all over himself. He's never hyperactive if anything he's a little lethargic.

He regularly fell asleep in the afternoon in his reception year. He eats well but has started complaining of stomach ache this last week and won't eat breakfast. I queried perhaps sleep apnea with gp but he said his adenoids and tonsils weren't large enough and it's unusual in children. ds often looks a bit pale and washed out.

So i'm at a loss, surely someone shouldnt be tired all the time. I'm sure if ds wasn't so tired his behaviour would be so much better at school.

Anyone any ideas.

Go and watch your child sleep. If you see snoring along with stopping breathing for more than 10 seconds along with a sudden snorty deep breath after, then OSA would seem likely. Take a video, show it to the GP and don't leave without an ENT referral. If sleep is sound and fine then no point exploring that further.
Otherwise, if GP has excluded anaemia, diabetes etc, then he may just be tired and need more sleep.
Hope you manage to get him feeling better soon.

Coeliac disease? Or non-coeliac wheat/gluten intolerance - perhaps try gluten free for 6 weeks and see how he is? Also, is he taking a vitamin d supplement as per the gov guidelines? Keep insisting with the GP - we were fobbed off for almost 6 months before I made a "bit of a scene" and we were then seen by another GP who ran tests etc. and kids are now under the consultant care they needed. If you can afford it/are willing to do it, seeing a GP privately is not as prohibitively expensive as seeing a consultant, so maybe worth a try for a second opinion....
Good luck!

He has been under asd assessments for 2 years and his presentation is so unclear - they are still not sure bit unlikely. Was highly stressed in prechool setting and not coping well in school. Oldest brothers adhd diagnosis may be clouding the situations (my dh may have undiagnosed adhd too - so significant history). They can't give middle ds qb test until 6 for attention deficit problems.

But I have read that sleep apnea may account for 25% of adhd cases. I'm not in denial - if he has add (adhd wih out hyperactivity) that's fine as I'm well versed in it

But I can't help feel there's something else going on. He's so manageable at home and everyone's says what a pleasant child he is.

Iv never seen colour drain from him.

He just yawns all the time, rubs eyes but he is still happy to run around and play. It's just like he's permantly not had a good night's sleep.

Iv been questioned by school and asd service about his sleep as they can't believe he tired but seems to sleep.

Interstitial about allergies and intolerance. It's def something I'm going to ask about. He often has explosive poos in the toilet (he's a non flusher - yuck lol) but has only complained stomach pains in the last couple of wks.

I'm also going to perhaps record ds sleeping, perhaps that would show evidence if sleep issues. He does snore but not all the time.

Another vote here for a test for coeliac disease- don't assume that it's included in blood tests as standard for people displaying textbook symptoms as your son is, it simply doesn't occur to some GPs

My ds (now 5) had glue ear, sleep apnoea (confirmed in a sleep study) constant viruses and tired and washed out. He suddenly grew out of it shortly before his 5th birthday as we were told he would.

Even if blood tests are within normal range, he could still be in the low end of normal for iron and vitamin d. Suggest you focus on this in his diet and with supplements.

Ps we had to watch him sleep and home and report back before they put him on the sleep study

Does he have a diet high in gluten/sugar and generally processed foods? My kids can manage those types of things occasionally, but if they had something like coco pops for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, and pasta for dinner they would really struggle. Maybe more slow-release foods in his diet? Other than that, pp suggestions are all good

Sorry just read your update, look up leaky gut syndrome. My son has autism, but since changing his all of our diets, he has greatly improved in terms of his happiness and development. He still has autism, but we're all the happier with the clean diet. It's probably close to Paleo diet

When I say he still has autism, I'm saying it as in, I'm not one of those banging on about a miracle cure! He's just much happier, quite honestly.

If he is so tired he needs his iron, thyroid and vit d levels checked as it isn't normal after 12 hours sleep.
I had this and iron changed my life!

It's normal for this age to find school exhausting, is he better in half terms?
I have just bought mine a vitamin d spray for children from holland and Barrett and one for me! I feel livelier certainly. It might be worth a go and yes to iron as well.

Constipation? My five year old is really lethargic and grumpy when's he's bunged up.

Thank so much foal the thoughts. i'm recording ds sleeping. Im definitely going to look into his diet - its low in sugar and processed foods as i'm super conscious the way diet has impact on my eldest but Iv read kids with asd/adhd can have intolerances to food that impacts their behaviour. Plus ds always has a runny nose which is a bit weird too

and i'm monitoring his poo. Iv told him to call me if he has a poo at home - he thinks this is hilarious and is noe calling it poo patrol

I had ME/CFS for a number of years (diagnosed at 14 but probably started after a virus age 12) but as well as exhaustion I had flu type symptoms, brain fog, achy muscles, joints, sensitive to light, sound and weakness as well as extreme tiredness. ME sounds unlikely going by the OP's posts but I am not sure if/how it manifests in young children?

he calls it poo patrol awww, bless his little heart! for him and for you OP. Wish you both all the best

My just turned 7 year old had several of the things you mentioned and he got just his adenoids out in December. Surgeon said they were large when he got in there. Within 3 days he said "my nose now works" He also was found to have a dairy intolerance, nasal sounds and excessive mucus.

Try an iron supplement. Ferriglobin tastes nice. It can't hurt. Not sure if it has colouring or anything that can exacerbate adhd

Normal blood tests don't include vitamin levels, or test for coeliac or thyroid

Ask for B12, folate, ferritin and vitamin D and thyroid too, and the coeliac test.

A good A-Z multi Vit and mineral will help, but don't start it til after the tests....

Leaving aside my earlier guess of CFS as one possibility, I think extreme tiredness in a 5 year old is a good reason to visit your GP. There are a whole bunch of reasons for tiredness, some of which they can test for in blood. I think it is worth a visit. Part of the reason I suggested CFS was the mention of ADHD, but of course it may have nothing at all to do with what the older children have.

justagirl484 the symptoms aren't exactly the same in young children. e.g. "Symptoms such as abdominal pain may be frequently present in pediatric ME/CFS, but may not be as common in adults."

As poster said above- dairy might be causing allergic rhinitis, quite a common thing really

I'd get bloods checked for coeliac disease. It is an autoimmune disease and can damage the small intestine meaning it stops absorbing nutrients from your food so can lead to deficiencies tiredness stomach aches etc. It is easily treated by taking gluten out of your diet. Normal bloods wouldn't check for coeliac disease you need to request those bloods.