AIBU to be horrified by my kids' school's latest Ofsted and want to shift them asap?

[bundybear]

So, we received the latest Ofsted report for my kids' primary school yesterday. Previously 'good' school, ticking along nicely, lost the head last year and not managed to recruit another so we've had an Executive Head drafted in since Sept. The school has been put in Special Measures, and the report is, shall we say, challenging. There's basically nothing good to be said in any section apart from safeguarding .

We already had a few concerns about a dip in standards after the last head left - bit less discipline, bit of a lack of direction - but not to the extent highlighted in the report. We thought it would be quickish to turn around with the Exec Head.

We moved a year or so ago (only a mile) but didn't shift the kids as we were happy with the school at the time, but now I'm thinking of putting in an in-year application to transfer. Two schools close to us - one is tiny (intake of 15) but within catchment, the other is bigger, but didn't give places to anyone beyond 0.5 miles (we're 0.8 miles away). Both are full so we'd be on a waiting list.

Thoughts about being in a Special Measures school? Remotely likely to get a transfer?

My kids are in Y4 and Y2, and we're applying for DD3's place in January (more dilemmas).

Two schools locally were both put into special measures, new heads appointed, lots of funding suddenly available. They are now two of the best schools in the area and oversubscribed. I'd give the SM a chance to work if the DC are happy at the school.

If the DC are happy and doing well I wouldn't move them OP

For what it's worth our local secondary has teenagers taking class A drugs on the premises and selling them to other pupils. That is a school rated Outstanding by Ofsted.

The police are aware and involved. Even police patrolling the school grounds hasn't affected their Outstanding status.

I just wouldn't describe a child who 'isn't getting enough to do' and who complains that the behaviour of others is stopping her from working are 'doing well'....

lots of funding suddenly available

From where..? If kids leave the school ends up with more money not less. There is a payment to the academy sponsor but that's not massive and is likely to be less than what's lost.

If there are specific issues about work not being challenging enough or disruptive behaviour then go in and speak to the teacher about them. Moving a yr2 and yr4 child from a school they have been in since reception is drastic and will be very unsettling for them. Unless there was bullying that wasn't being addressed I would never move a child unnecessarily.

Like Basic, I'm not sure twhere this pot of money is likely to come from?

In the 'old days' of LEAs, yes, this did sometimes happen - advisors etc sent in, staff loaned from other schools, additional funds. I don't think it happens any more. Unless the surrounding schools are ALL full, you could be looking at losing a significant number of children over the next few years (up to 50% is commonplace IME, adding those who never apply to those who leave), and therefore a drastic drop in funding.

This is all very helpful, thank you. My kids do feel safe and supported at school, which is an area that was always well praised in previous reports, and a reason we chose the school in happier times.

I've completed the relevant in year application forms and will get those sent off so at least they're in the system. I can always turn any places down if their current school suddenly stages a dramatic recovery. DH's view is that they were doing well for a while and suddenly went downhill, which means they can quickly come up back as it's less likely to be a systemic failure, more a symptom of the lack of headteacher/leadership. We'll see.

It's a CofE school too, so there will be an additional report SIAMS report at some point (the last one from 2015 was very good).

The ofstead report isn't based on a one day snap shot at all.
Op dd2 went to a schh that had been rated good 4 yrs previous. DH was aware that the school wasn't all it seemed but didn't get much inside knowledge (tricky time family wise) he end d up going there a few months later when the school went into sm . DH is a bit 'hard arse' in teaching staff which isn't great for the teachers but does get things moving for the school, he was adamant we shouldn't move DD and avyear on the school is thriving although won't have another inspection for 2 years. Unfortunately how quickly the school develops and improves will be down to who is brought in to tackle the problems and as in any job at any level there's slackers!! Re becoming an academy the last three schools including dds that he's gone to have been turned into academy's but I don't know if that's an automatic process, I can ask him later. As others have said if your DC are happy and progressing don't worry. A previously outstanding rated school could be really struggling a few years later but not picked up on , parents still going by the out of date last report. A school recognised as sm will be getting a lot of outside help and expertise

Ours is a Coe school too! Sounds like your taking a sensible approach hope it turns out well!

Contrary to other posters, I would stick in an application.
You have nothing to lose, you don't have to take a place if it is offered.

Then you can consider calmly whether you recognise the school you have read about in the Ofsted report. It seems to me from your opening post that at least some of it you were already aware of.

A leaderless school can wander off course easily, and a new strong head teacher can turn things around if supported enough. But you don't know when a new permanent head will be appointed, so I would hedge your bets.

Children can be happy and settled and not be learning anything much.
Many children can and do settle in to new schools quickly and well.

I've written a letter to the school to explain about the transfer request, as per procedure, but also explaining that my key concerns for the kids are around the quality of the teaching and the poor behaviour. I've given my contact details and asked to talk about this further, although I'd imagine they'll be a little busy at the moment.

A teacher friend has said that discipline/behaviour is one of the quicker things to sort out, not sure if that's true...The old head teacher was pretty strict but the head of school definitely isn't.

All local schools are full, so I'm not sure where everyone will go if people will choose to move - we have a few more options as we moved out of the village so have access to other schools, even though those are full too. There are nearly 500 kids on the school roll, they can't all go elsewhere...

I'm a teacher and joined a new school after it was put into SM. It was already in an academy chain but the support it got was amazing. We had a very supportive SIP (School Improvement Partner) and radical change happened throughout school. There's more monitoring, Ofsted visits and we even had a visit for the DFE. A year and a half later OFSTED visited again and we got a solid good.
Yes some teachers will leave and some new ones will come, happens in every school. Just try to stay informed and if you see a problem highlight it. They will HAVE to be on top of their game for the next few months/until the next OFSTED inspection.

Also, not sure how to talk to the kids about this - they know the outcome of the report and they and their friends are worried about it and sad. I haven't mentioned moving schools as that's not guaranteed now or any time in the future. I can see staff and pupil morale rapidly going down the tube

Lack of discipline was reported. Yes because teachers are afraid to discipline children, with irate parents running up the school. If their little poppet or soldier is told off. I've seen it with my own eyes.
I wouldn't necessarily listen to an Ofsted result. Quite often they're more obsessed with paper work, anyway. As long as your children are thriving and happy. Id leave them in That's the biggest kicker. IMO. All that comes way way way before the academic side, because if they're not happy. They can't learn.
And The safe guarding is reported as good. Which is no small thing.

*Are you DC happy and are they progressing academically? If they are I'd be tempted to keep them where they are with their friends and routine and see how it goes. Now that the school is in special measures it HAS to improve and the school will be monitored very closely.

If your DC are unhappy there and you've noticed their work slipping I'd move them*

This ^

Mine was in an 'outstanding' school once, biggest mistake and I know many others parents at the time agreed. I will never pay hugely close attention to Ofsted again..

Sorry ..

Are you DC happy and are they progressing academically? If they are I'd be tempted to keep them where they are with their friends and routine and see how it goes. Now that the school is in special measures it HAS to improve and the school will be monitored very closely.

If your DC are unhappy there and you've noticed their work slipping I'd move them

should have been bold!

I wouldn't make a decision based on ofsted - it's generally not about the experience the kids are having. And speaking as an ex-school governor, the things that schools are judged on aren't necessarily the things that make them great schools.

Primary schools have to jump through so many hoops to get an outstanding ofsted that I would, perversely, have more time for a school that did badly as it could indicate that the head had decided it was more important to focus on running the school than crossing and dotting ofsted's t's and i's.

i would go much more on are your kids still enjoying the school, are the teachers enthusiastic, are they communicating with you, is there a 'happy' feeling around the place, do you feel they are learning stuff.

Basically, take your head out of the paperwork and use your own judgement.

Obviously you know your DC and know how this would impact them but as a child who was moved schools, I found it incredibly distressing and it negatively impacted the rest of my school life. Obviously I'm fine now as an adult but I went from being a very secure, happy and confident child to a very anxious and unhappy one. Personally I feel that the social grounding and education children receive at primary school is more important than the academic one (beyond the basics).

Also, having worked in schools, the first day back after Christmas is pretty much the worst I can imagine and absolutely would not be representative of the school on an average day!

It's not the Ofsted that would bother me. It's the absence of a permanent head. We were without one for a year and a half and although we got the council placed an excellent temporary head, the school drifted and staff morale seemed down. My son was in year 5 and I wish I'd moved him as by the time the new head got in and made his mark he had almost finished year 6. I feel his last two years could have been so much better.

I had to change my dc's school, when dc1 was year 4 and dc2 was year 1. Dc2 has sn, and the school were not willing to give extra support and were generally shit about it. Quite prepared to ignore dc2's sn, and exclude when any problems came up. I was constantly writing letters, and arranging meetings, and every day just felt like a battle. Luckily for dc2, we managed to move schools, and the difference has been incredible, with so much progress being made. Unfortunately, the move was very difficult for dc1, who had established friendships at the old school. It's been very upsetting at times. My point is, I would never have moved them if I'd known that they were happy and making progress. It's not something I would do unless absolutely necessary.

Well, it seems a shame to move your older dd when she has a transition to secondary coming already and is doing well, happy at the school. You have plenty of time for dd2, age wise, although obviously if she continues to be unhappy you will have to do something. I would just be clear with the kids that you think there are some good things and bad things about the school, and you are hoping to see things improve, otherwise you will think about other options. Let them know you will be responsible for any future decisions, and you will do it with their best needs in mind, so that they don't feel burdened by the responsibility.

I wouldn't panic ....it sounds like most of the problem is due to the lack of a head teacher so that is relatively easy to fix...if they can find a decent replacement.
And ofsted reports are problematic - schools can be marked down for things that don't have a direct impact on learning or the child's experience.

I know a teacher in a school that went from outstanding to (iirc) needs improvement - might even have been lower. It was a shock.
The main reason was the children weren't making the progress they were supposed to...
BUT the main feeder nursery had had problems and (according to the teacher) were under pressure to show improvement so were exaggerating the progress the children had made there...which had a knock on effect for the primary school. The children turning up weren't as capable as the nursery had said - think the nursery saying the children could read when they left and turning up at school not recognising the letters of the alphabet...and then the school being criticised for 'only' managing to teach them to read basic words after a year.
Also I know a school that is currently in demand - has a good report but hasn't been inspected for a while. It is a good school and the children do well and are happy etc. But a teacher working there thinks they will get marked down on inspection.
For a start most of the children start well prepared and have good parental support etc, are 'advantaged' and so go up to secondary exceeding expectations. But the school have been told that isn't enough - they need to show a certain degree of 'progression' during their primary years. However the school concentrates on trying to give them a more rounded education, more life experience - at secondary they already spend the first few years going over stuff they can already do...
Perhaps then secondary schools should come under pressure too and we can have 12yr olds sitting their GCSE's?
The second reason is paperwork - eg the HT encourages teachers to lesson plan in a way that works for them. As long as they are planning and their plans are understandable to someone else for eg if they went off long term sick the HT is happy...but apparently the planning should be done using a system that is standardised across the school. This teacher previous worked in a school that ticked all the right paperwork boxes and had the standardised planning - but those folders sat unlooked at in the heads office and they all had their own plans too - those folders were purely a box ticking exercise...a waste of time.

Whereabouts in the country are you op?

Unlucky. It was ever thus. When there were levels, each phase would say that the previous one exaggerated attainment.

If children aren't making expected progress, Ofsted will look at the reasons for that- some of which may be quite acceptable, others not so much. They will be scrutinising data and will have formed a hypothesis before they ever get to the school. That will be confirmed or changed by what they actually see in the school. It would be difficult for teaching to be graded good if progress levels aren't good and the data must support what the school says. There could be good teaching and progress in spite of weak leadership, but that would be quite unusual. If teaching is unsatisfactory, then leadership and management will almost certainly be the same, because, unless the leadership is very new, the premise is that they should be aware of and taking steps to remediate teaching.

You can also find that schools that have good results can be graded as RI, because they are coasting schools and have not added value to the intake of children they get.

OP, I expect your school will swiftly become forced to become part of an academy chain.

Ofsted isn't worth the paper it's written on.

I see this attitude time and again on MN. It is arrogant and potentially damaging.

Yes, it's possible that on a particularly good or bad day a school on the border between two grades might slip into 'good' or 'requires improvement' depending on which way the wind blows. It's also possible to have an individual child who does very well in an inadequate school. For example, Ofsted are very hot on achievement gaps, especially if boys or disadvantaged pupils do significantly worse than other groups of children. If your DC is a high achiever, or a girl, in one such school then they might breeze through never encountering these inadequacies. A five-year-old Ofsted report will likely tell you nothing about the school today.

However. Please be under absolutely no illusions: special measures is a very serious judgement and not given lightly. No school flukes their way into SM because they had a bad day. There are two categories for inadequate schools; 'serious weaknesses' means that the school is inadequate but that the inspectors have confidence in the leadership and management of the school to address the difficulties. SM means that not only is the school inadequate, but Ofsted judge that the leadership of the school does not have the capacity to drive the necessary change.

Once the lead inspector is aware that the judgement is likely to be 'inadequate' they are required to phone the regional Ofsted office. Often additional inspectors are deployed on day 2 to ensure that the judgement made is the correct one.

This doesn't necessarily mean that you should move your DC, however. Once a school is in SM, a lot of support swings in to ensure that improvements are made very quickly indeed, and inspectors will be back for a monitoring visit within a few months to check that this is indeed the case. On balance, depending on what the school's inadequacies are, I'd quite possibly rather that my DC were in a school in SM where the problems have been identified and are being actively addressed than a complacent, coasting school.

Please disregard any poster who tells you that you can ignore Ofsted, however.