To think the 'narcissist diagnosis' on MN is sexist?

[Farandole]

Not a TAAT, but a general musing.

There have been a huge number of threads lately (although not a new phenomenon) where posters complain that their mother, MIL, SIL etc are narcs.

There are nowhere as many threads complaining of narcissistic fathers, BILs etc.

Considering that studies show that men show more narcissistic traits than women, and are almost twice as likely to have narcissistic personality disorder, I am curious as to why mumsnetters identify narc traits in so many women around them.

My hypothesis is that this is the result of unconscious bias. We don't begrudge men's self-entitlement as much as we do women's. Therefore we are less likely to recognise narcissistic behaviour in men.

One other possibility is that narc mothers are more likely than narc fathers to use their children to fulfill their narcissistic needs, whereas narc fathers tend to see their children as an annoyance, and therefore tend to be neglectful rather than other, perhaps more obvious, narc behaviours. So their narcissism flies under the radar of 'bad parenting', whereas women are branded as narcs.

Am I the only one who thinks this?

For full disclosure - long time poster, no personal interest in this, no narc in immediate family. I'm just puzzled by the over abundance of female narcs in mumsnetters' lives.

makingmerry, you've thought a lot about this!

Making, I like your style :o

As I said throughout, there is no science behind my gut feeling. It does look to me like there is a disproportionately high number of women being labelled as narcs by mners, but I can't prove it (I'm not a scientist) and I may well be wrong. Looking at one very crude indicator (threads started), I seem to be right, but that could well be a false positive.

What interests me about this issue is the potential notion that women are potentially more likely to assign some mental health traits to other women, than they are to men. Given that narcissism runs against many of the values traditionally associated with femininity (kindness, modesty, selflessness), it would not surprise me if women were more prone to associate a perceived lack of these values, with a mental disorder.

A lot of valid and interesting points have been made on this thread. I think it's good we're having these debates here.

Or is there a notion that when a woman calls up the behaviour of another woman and assigns it a name, to work out the dynamics, she is then only judged as a woman judging another woman because they are both women?

I think many people use the word narc as a broad description for a personality type, rather than thinking the person is mentally ill. But yeah, there are many behaviours that aren't blinked at if you're male, I've had enough strutting male colleagues in the past, in some offices if they're not seen to be strutting they're seen as week. Female takes up her fair share of a meeting and is seen to be dominating. I think you do have a good point. Or should we reverse it? And be a little more specific with how we refer to difficult men? He's not just the office wanker, or up his arse, likes to be in charge but a ....

There will also be differences in how the relationship originated. I'm not talking necessarily about behaviour deemed as narc here. All families have their own strange ways and dynamics, from mild harmless battyness to full on disfunction. When you meet your partners or friends families you're looking in as an outsider and more likely to go OMG what the hell is going on, this isn't right! Then try to explain it, name it and work out what the hell to do.

If it's your partner or own family then you are either slowly ground down or know no different. It may take decades of feeling something is wrong to even come close to mentally describing and naming the behaviour. Maybe people are more likely to post about their partner not pulling their weight in aibu or how they don't feel good enough for their parents, or how they are so busy running around after a sibling. They're a long way off going OMG my husband / parents are quite narcissistic, abusive, or whatever the issue is. By that stage the posts are buried in one of the long running support threads.

Another thinking aloud post from me.

When I said that I considered my old boss to be covert narcisitic, it was not meant as name calling, or to be dismissive. I am not sitting here poking my tongue out going he's a so nasty because he's a narc he's a narc na na na

It did help me understand and disengage from him. He was one of those people who could really get you to doubt yourself, even when surrounded by people with the same experience of him. It made me see that he probably was badly bullied when younger, it made sense why he took offence so quickly. I ended up seeing a person who was probably damaged. Before taking 10 steps back and resigning j

When I first looked at MN I could not understand the number of MILS described as drug addicts. I confused narcs with narcotics.
I agree to label anyone without a diagnosis as a narcissist is dangerous and inaccurate and demeaning to anyone who has a diagnosed personality disorder.It has become the go to term of abuse for many posters on MN.

I think it comes down to the fact that women tend to be more overtly narc and project their narciness onto others, particularly children.

Whereas men tend to be more solitary and turn it in on themselves, are less vocal about it.

When I first looked at MN I could not understand the number of MILS described as drug addicts. I confused narcs with narcotics.

I just always think of the American slang where 'narc' means 'undercover detective'.

I think OP has a very ineptersting observation.. A phd in the making? Perhaps it is something that will change over the next generation. Giving away my age, when I was a teenager life was focussed on boys getting good jobs and girls bagging a man who would be a good (well paid) husand and being SAHM's. Back then it actually was important that a man felt important as he had to earn the money. A woman was the mother/housewife. That has gone but perhaps the attitudes have lingered. Mabey when I am pushing up dasies life will have changed further and people will recognise narcissism in woman as part of life?

"Considering that studies show that men show more narcissistic traits than women, and are almost twice as likely to have narcissistic personality disorder, I am curious as to why mumsnetters identify narc traits in so many women around them."
I wonder if it may have to do with the different nature of 'normal' relationships. Generalising wildly, I would say that female-female relationships (especially mother-daughter), can have a closeness not present in female-male relationships. That closeness can make the non-narc more vulnerable to the narc's behaviour. A bit of space between you and you're better able to stand back and protect yourself, be less hurt by the narc.

Like I said, hugely generalising.

Diana you raised a valid point. We're on thread 4...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2803565-Support-thread-for-those-of-us-having-to-co-parent-with-a-narc-or-very-difficult-exh-thread-4

I'm not disagreeing with the key principle, but there are threads for mums dealing with exH/P to share the pain of coparenting with a golden entitled manchild selfish man.

Thank you all for providing views on this, I'm finding this very interesting. I think the picture is probably more nuanced than I originally thought.

I am, though, still puzzled at the sheer number of 'narc mums' threads. Maybe it is to do with the nature and closeness of the mother-daughter relationship.

I think some people think of children as extensions of themselves too and therefore expect their children to be at their disposal, and that they can behave however they like around them. Can't call it a narc thing, but it is very self-centred

If it wasn't for mumsnet I would still be confused and upset about my mum. She is a narc and for the best part of 40 years I couldn't figure out what was wrong. When MN pointed me in the direction of some helpful literature - it all made sense. It was like a eureka moment. Now myself and my sister are working through our issues and it's helped me massively disengage from her damaging behaviours. So it may well be overused but it has been a lifeline for people like me.

Notfrom disengaging from "damaging behaviours" really resonates with me. You can never reason with a narc. I hope your sister and you can move on together.

Sorry OP for sidetracking your thread there!

thanks lilac we're working on it

I agree there are loads. Loads of exs and stbexs getting called narcs. Probably because they are.

I also thought this was going to be about only men being called narcs.