to ask what parents would like from Brownies/Guides?

[Twistmeandturnme]

I'm a Brownie leader.
Every so often on MN there's a bit of a rant/complaint about GG and although someone always steps in to point out that we're all volunteers it makes me wonder what people really want.
I see Brownies as a rare non-competitive extracurricular activity. All girls (aged 7-100), where they get to set the programme (with some guidance). We aim to offer a mixed range of activities which together fulfil our requirements to look at the individual, the community and the world, and for the girls to work in individually, in small groups and in larger groups. The programme isn't necessarily rooted in outdoor pursuits like scouting, but can include whatever the girls like (with a very few exceptions) including outdoor pursuits if that is what the girls choose.
So: here's my question: what would you want your daughter's to experience as part of being a Brownie? Is there anything you wouldn't want them to do that you have heard of Brownies doing?

I certainly wouldn't send DD to the brownie branch of the rainbow pack she went to. One of the leaders may have been volunteering her time but she was surly and rude, constantly chewing gum with her mouth open (maybe petty of me but I think it's gross and a poor example) and her adult daughter 'helper' just sat around using her phone. Every week they'd come back with a badge for as little as colouring in, and any food they made was chocolatey, sugary shit.

I'm fully intending to send her to a different pack. I'm hoping for a wider range of activities including plenty of outdoor stuff, perhaps some drama (remember taking part in a regional show myself) and general guidance on being a decent human being!

My first paragraph wasn't intended as a blanket criticism but her rainbows group was very poor.

I agree £12 for something in normal session times is a lot! Normal meetings should be accessible to everyone,

We do an end of term trip but normally don't charge over £5 for it, if it costs more the unit subsidises it. Or with my Guides who can be more flakey than Brownies we ask for the cost up front but refund the amount above subs when they attend, so it doesn't cost any extra unless they don't turn up (because we were sick of the unit paying for places and then girls just not turning up, it's not fair one the ones who turn up and pay every week)

Agree that extra costs should be clear in advance! I did a sport myself for a while as an adult and hated all the little extras that I didn't get told about til after I was committed.

We try and send out dates and costs at the start of the term or year while hopefully making it clear that we're not asking for all the money all at once! Sometimes something comes up at short notice but almost everything should be planned in advance and be able to give parents notice

I have been very disappointed with my daugther's brownies. It's a very happy place but it's just so sickly sweet - both the tone of the brown owl and the activities are not even a little bit stretching, other than one trip where they went back stage at a theatre which was great. It's very much tending to arts and crafts/go to a cafe/tell stories rather than anything more interesting, and even lacks the games i loved when I was a brownie like duck duck moose and ladders. I agree it's really all about the brown owl and her preferences, so think it would be good if you were more able to chose a group based on what you/your dd is looking for. I'd really rather she went to scouts in terms of what she's getting, but I do like the idea of an all-girl/all women-led movement. Plus she is happy and it's helping her reach her goal of having out-of-school friends.

Will persevere until she's 10 but not sure whether we will continue to GG.

So what would you want Merlin? A wider range of activities, more outings ?
To all of you saying that your girls won't go on to the next section based on where they are now: each section is very different so don't immediately jump without at least attending a taster.

Why can't brownies be about outdoor activities. Many years ago that is what I thought it would be when I mistakenly joined up. I felt tricked and trapped when that turned not to be the case.

Brownies has never been a singularly outdoor programme. Especially now that it is girl-led planning, the programme changes a little each year as each cohort provide feedback and tailor the offering to their tastes.
Sorry you felt tricked and trapped Atenco.
When I was a Brownie it was very clearly about doing a good turn every day, polishing an owl every day and twice on Sundays, learning to do laundry and cook, polish the brass finials on top of flags and playing ladders ever week. I think we are a lot less domestic than we were.

One DD loved Brownies and got almost all the badges. She was miffed they never went camping/did overnights though. They did various trips over the years to a fire station, outdoor adventure activities, pet shop, radio station, Tesco visit and a few other local trips - generally 2-3 a year. Most meetings involved craft or games in the hall by default which she enjoyed as it was more about seeing her school mates and not having boys around was super important as her school class was disrupted by boys a lot.

DD2 has just defected to Cubs. she can't wait to go kayaking, camp in a teepee etc. They have so far done games nights, first aid night and a film night. Apparently there are lots of fun and exciting things such as hide and seek by torch in the woods, lighting fires, jelly eating contests and so on. She is on the outer with the girls at school so seeing them at Brownies was less important for her. Sadly Brownies doesn't seem 'exciting' enough for her as she likes novelty and adventure. That said it's triple the cost of Brownies!

It's a while since I was a Brown Owl, now it's Guides (10-14) and Rangers (Senior Section, 14 +).
The programme for all ages has changed massively over the last few years, all that training to be "homemakers"? No more, thank goodness!
We do plan our program with the girls, and we do suggest things to them they might not have otherwise thought of. We aim to be outdoors for most of the summer term, even if it's raining! Tbh, most craft happens in the run up to Christmas and they do love cooking (indoors and outside).
Guides do everything the scouts do, plus some more traditionally "girly" stuff, for example having a rep.from the body shop come and do a make up demonstration with the older girls, or a "bin bag fashion" evening.
As for trips, we try to keep costs down, and subsidise from funds if we can. We also claim gift aid and fundraise, so if you are having trouble paying for, say, camp, have a quiet word with the leader. We have over the years helped, in private, a number of girls who otherwise would not have been able to go.

Incidentally, littlepinkmouse, all the things you mention your dd doing with cubs? We have done them all, with the exception of a jelly eating contest, in the last year with guides.

Twistmeandturnme - don't you think it may be time for a change? Seeing the huge amount of girls going to Cubs/Scouts in our area now I wonder if Brownies aren't doomed.

DD has no male siblings or cousins, hardly any friends with male siblings so her "normal" contact is very limited. With 90% certainty she will join a girl school, I think she needs the Cubs/Scout environment to counterbalance her female day-to-day life.

I wonder if Brownies aren't doomed

I doubt it very much, certainly in our area there are long waiting lists for both Brownies and Cubs.

The brownie leader is also beaver leader, and I think these days, at least IME, there is more that is similar than is different between cubs and brownies. The brownies maybe do a bit more in the way of crafts, but it's generally quite similar.

Both do trips, knots, first aid, cooking, parades, camps/pack holidays, water sports etc.

The main difference (apart from that fact that one is mixed, of course) is that the Brownies just seem generally a bit quieter than the fairly boisterous cubs!

It's scouts that's doomed here, no one will volunteer to run it!

I like that brownies is girls only. Like nost children my kids go to co-ed school and it's nice for DD to have some girl only time.

I know DS will benefit from scouts being mixed though, it definitely does boys good to see girls doing everything they do too.

I wonder if Brownies aren't doomed
I don't think the figures bear that out. I have 30 Brownies and a waiting list of 60: as soon as one flags another takes their place.
Certainly the scouting programme is very geared to physical activity/outdoorsy stuff, so some girls will prefer that, but overall GG is bigger, more oversubscribed, more desperate for leaders. There is a big restructure of programme on the way for the whole of GG, which may make it more desirable for those who would currently prefer scouting (I haven't seen the full programme so don't take that as gospel) but my feeling, based on my local area (which I will accept isn't necessarily typical) is that the variety between units is a good thing: I have had very quiet girls struggle a bit in my unit and transfer to a local village unit where the subs are cheaper and they do more crafts, quiet activities and games. Also I have girls applying to transfer here who have heard about the camps and more unusual activities we offer. I have parents who praise us to high heaven because we cover WAGGGS syllabus/UK development goals/worldwide issues such as education of women and inequality overall, and those who would much prefer we stick to walks and games. We try to offer all things to all types of girls, with a little added food for thought and an undercurrent of community service and thinking of others.
There's always room for improvement, and with young children it has to be primarily fun, which is why I'm asking for parental thoughts here, but Brownies doomed? Nah, can't see it for the next 20 years at least.

UN development goals, not Uk!

Yes I think the all girls element is crucial. I understand that the poster whose girl goes to an all girls school, won't want an all girl afterschool activity. But that is rare. Most girls go to mixed schools and Brownies is the only all girl club they go to.

DontCallMeBaby

Badges. Not because badges are amazing in their own right (I hate sewing the little sods)

Another Brown Owl here. I'm also interested in parent's views so will be watching with interest.

Cubs and Brownies are equally popular in my area. 2 x cub packs with 24 cubs each and 2 brownie units with 23 and 25 girls respectively (I have 25, so I win!!). We ask the girls what they want to do and try to accommodate some of their ideas along with some of our own.

From the thread so far, parents want:
A cheerful Brown Owl who doesn't chew gum but isn't too sweet.
Games
Crafts
Outdoor activities
Trips
Cooking but not just sugary stuff
Guidance on doing the right thing and community service
Residential opportunities
The chance to do things they wouldn't ordinarily do.
Low cost

Anything else?

...forgot....a resounding 'girls only'.

Great to see that in lots of areas the Brownies still go strong.

When we looked at it, it was "sold to us" in a way that girls can learn skills in their own way without pressure and competition from boys. In general I think this is important and vital. But, it should be something more than what - at least the packs in our area - provide and feels typical girly anyway. I think especially quite and shy girls would benefit from being "pushed" gently in an environment they feel safe and learn new skills.

I know it all is up to the Brown Owl, I have the utmost respect to people volunteering with children anyway as it is something I can't do.

So late to this thread but love that brownies exists for a child with disabilities who is totally welcomed and involved. You leaders are great..the fun is gentle and inclusive and the days out are good fun. If anything, I think it'd do no harm for them to get a bit dirtier every now and then....more outside, campfires, cooking out etc...but mostly we're delighted. Thank you...PS, I think parents are often happy to help and attend on excursions and GG shouldn't be afraid to ask x

I'd like to see camping and more outdoor activities generally. My DD loves the social side of Brownies but finds some of the activities a bit dull. I have considered cubs but DD likes the girls in her pack and wants to stay.

Ex-guider, dd just started brownies. Dd loves 'belonging' to something. She loves the fact that it is not school - either in place or activity - as school is not a great place for her. I think that they meet in the church hall and not someone's school (like rainbows did - not her school so she felt a touch 'left out') is great.
She loves making friends outside of school - and is fascinated by the wider guiding community having just done a 'six based present swap' across the county and looking at world guiding.
Camp is important though I appreciate the work involved for leaders. Dd and many of our brownies had not stayed away before. I actually agree halls are good (simpler, safer...) for brownies camping is special for guides - although we often camped in halls on guide/scout campsites with outdoor stuff alongside.
Dd loves tradional brownie stuff (she would have loved the 5 things in her pocket stuff!) as so different to other stuff she does. And girls only - big plus for dd as school class so Unbalanced!
Not seen new programme but I hope it doesn't move too much towards scouts programme as those wanting that have the option of Scouts!

interesting thread TwistMe.

For my DD I want somewhere that would build up her confidence and give her experiences i can't (wide games, pack holidays, things where you need lots of children for it to work) Brown Owl has really pushed the promise and being a good Brownie, which has made her a much nicer child and has got her to try so many things i could never get her to do/eat.

I'm a Rainbow leader in a district that does a lot together so already knew the local Brownie units, one of the things that made me choose the Brownies we did (which isn't the one my unit usually feed into) is that DD's Brown Owl expects them to at least try, she will help a girl that's struggling with an activity but not until they've given it a go, which with a DD that lacks confidence in herself is really important.