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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to (technically) gazump someone?

110 replies

WaitedForGodot · 06/02/2017 17:27

long time lurker, first time poster

Went to view a house at the weekend that we loved - we've got a 13 month old ds and another on the way, and we're looking for a nice family home to live in for the next 20 or so years (with any luck). We're in the London commuter belt, so there's not exactly a glut of lovely family homes at a price we can afford. This one ticked virtually all the boxes, and was on at a great price as the seller had had a previous sale fall through and wanted a quick sale to avoid losing the house they were buying.

Rang the agent this morning to tell them we loved the house and arranged to do a second viewing tomorrow. Next thing we heard was at 3pm when we got a phone call to say that they'd received several offers, accepted one at asking price and were cancelling our second viewing.

We were pretty sold on the house in, and would just have been making absolutely certain it was right with the second viewing. And we reckon it's definitely worth over asking price (which was £50k less than it had been priced at when it sold the first time). So we came back and offered £10k over asking price, and are waiting to hear what comes out of that.

Anyway, I rang my mum to give her an update on what was going on (she's been following all our househunting via RightMove), and her immediate response was 'it doesn't seem right for you to make an offer after they've accepted one from someone else, how would you feel if that happened to you?'

AIBU to feel like we're not doing anything that wrong here? If the agent had kept us in the loop, we'd have made an offer before someone else's had been accepted, and given it's the same day it's not like they'll have shelled out for any surveys or anything.

or should we just lump it and accept that we're dirty gazumpers willing to snatch a house from under someone else's nose? Blush

OP posts:
honeyroar · 06/02/2017 19:12

We sold a house last year. We had five offers at full asking price but the end of day two. Each buyer was asked what their maximum bid was. It ended up going for 15% above the asking price. But I guess this situation is different as the offer had already been accepted. I think it would be fairest to go back to the original person and ask them to match your offer, giving them first option.

MidniteScribbler · 06/02/2017 19:15

It's not just about money. I've accepted a lower offer on a property when it was a cash sale and short settlement, over a higher offer which was subject to sale of their own property. Bird in the hand and all that.

I do think that the agent should have checked with your first before taking offers to the owner, but maybe the buyer that has had their offer accepted is in a position to move straight away, whereas you're going to be waiting on your own place to sell, or mortgage approval?

To be honest, I've bought and sold a lot, and would be wary of someone who would gazump others. It just seems like a tacky thing to do, and I'd worry about your ethics going forward with the sale.

Original poster
WaitedForGodot · 06/02/2017 19:22

OK, I was kinda expecting some comments along the lines of 'ruthless' or 'cutthroat', but 'tacky' was a surprise!

We're sold STC, with a complete lower chain, so unless the other buyer doesn't have anything to sell (I guess it's possible) then we should be in a pretty good position there.

OP posts:
mickeyjohn · 06/02/2017 19:24

Same day doesn't count in my book! This happened to us when we were first time buyers the day after we had an offer accepted - we got gazumped, so we came back with an even higher offer, & got the flat. We paid over the asking price by quite a bit but could afford it & loved the flat. At no point did I blame the other person for making us spend more than planned - it's every man for himself in the property market! I wouldn't gazump weeks into a transaction as that's really shitty but within the first few days I think it's fair game. Good luck!

counterpoint · 06/02/2017 19:27

If you really loved it, you'd have made an offer at the first viewing. Are you sure you just don't like the idea someone else is having it?

I'm only saying this because we tried to sell a flat last year and a similar thing happened. Someone like you stepped in with a higher offer after several about-asking-price offers and we accepted the higher last minute offer. Then, they let us down suddenly and insisted they really should have had that second viewing! We were lucky to be able to go back to one of the lower offers and they were genuine and the whole thing went through.

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/02/2017 19:29

This is typical of the estate agent not doing their job properly. What they should have done was told the vendor to wait until you'd done your second viewing and informed you there was a very good offer on the table so if you wanted it, you needed to act fast and perhaps told you any counter offer should be above asking price.

I sold a house a couple of years ago. Said to the agent they should contact the other party, who had made a lower offer to see if they wanted to increase. They told me these people were out of the running and I should accept the offer, which I did. The next day, the other party came back with a better offer. The agent then asked for best and final offer from the two parties. Very sloppy and shameful behaviour by the agent. I didn't like doing this to the first people. However, I got closer to what the house was worth. Needless to say, I shall never use that agent again. They were awful.

Original poster
WaitedForGodot · 06/02/2017 19:30

No, we loved it from first viewing, but I always want a second viewing just to make sure. Thought we'd get a bit more warning about it going off the market, we only wanted one more day to do the second viewing!

OP posts:
Original poster
WaitedForGodot · 06/02/2017 19:31

This whole thing is also making me feel a lot better about using a cheap and cheerful online agent for our sale.

OP posts:
Trills · 06/02/2017 19:36

Autumntactics is right that Estate Agents are often not really incentivised to do their job very well beyond getting any offer that they think will work.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't do a good proper job, but it explains why sometimes they don't bother.

ToffeeForEveryone · 06/02/2017 19:42

Gazumping is totally fair game! In fact it's how the entire English property market is structured ... yes it's horrible if you are the losing bidder, but it's great if you are the seller, you want to get the most you possibly can!

Free market at work.

aaaaargghhhhelpme · 06/02/2017 19:43

We had an offer accepted for a lovely house. Perfect for the DC and DC on the way. Our flat was already sold to lovely couple expecting their first baby.

Offer accepted on Friday.
Gazumped on Monday.

No money was theoretically lost - no surveys were done etc. But the stress...

It totally threw us out. And we had the pressure that if we didn't find a property our buyers would have to pull out as their mortgage was based on her full time wage. If she applied again she would be on maternity so wouldn't get the mortgage.

We werent moving just down the road - it was a totally new area. So viewings were limited and would literally take all weekend every weekend as we desperately searched the area.

It ended very messily. We had to move across the country into rented for six months which totally unsettled dc.

So...that's what it's like on the other end of being gazumped...

LosingDory · 06/02/2017 19:43

I would be fucked off if it happened to me, but I wouldn't let my dream house pass me by to be polite

museumum · 06/02/2017 19:48

I think the English system is shit but I don't think it can be considered gazunping if it happens the same day. It's a bidding war.

Surely real gazunping is when two parties have started proceedings to buy/sell (instructing a lawyer, surveyor etc) and then another person puts in a higher offer.

CotswoldStrife · 06/02/2017 19:49

As another poster said upthread, wouldn't you be worried that the vendor would dump you for a higher offer later on?

fourquenelles · 06/02/2017 19:51

I did the Kirsty and Phil thing of offering the asking price (as to me the house was worth it) on condition that the house was taken off the market with immediate effect. This meant that all future viewings were cancelled when my offer was accepted.

I have also been in the position of accepting an offer and then having someone come in with a higher amount. I don't like it and I have never (16 or so house moves in my time) reneged on the initial acceptance. Makes me feel uncomfortable.

londonrach · 06/02/2017 19:57

Happened to us day of exchange. Whole nasty business cost us £3,000 (searches etc) then we had to see our flat come up for rent as bought by buy to letters. We would have lived in it. Yabvvvvvvvvvvvu and its a horrible nasty stressful world. So glad we finally managed to buy after 5 years of this happening although only that once to got to almost exchange. 😢😢😢😢😢

Tabymoomoo · 06/02/2017 20:05

Go for it! Yes technically it is gazumping but barely, the other party won't have spent any money yet. In the very early days of offers I think it's every man/woman for themselves and if that means a bidding war go for it if you really want the house. The way I see it is what is an extra £10k (if you can afford it) if you're planning on staying there for 10/20 years.

What I would object to in the English system is gazumping or one party pulling out way down the line when everyone has invested a lot more time, money and emotions into the sale. A friend of mine had their seller pull out the day before exchange because they "changed their minds" leaving my friend out massively out of pocket and so disappointed. The entire chain beneath them then collapsed leaving a lot of upset people. Shouldn't be allowed 😡

Original poster
WaitedForGodot · 06/02/2017 20:13

Definitely agree that gazumping later into the progress is super shitty! Not a hint of an argument there!

Cotswold - they definitely want a quick sale - all their stuff was in boxes when we viewed! Would be surprised if they wanted to slow things down by switching buyers once we were actually into the sales progression.

OP posts:
BlackbirdSingsInTheDeadOfNight · 06/02/2017 20:22

Hmm, if it was me who'd had an offer accepted and it was then rejected then I'd be pretty hacked off. But it sounds like the estate agent isn't being very efficient here and the owners may have (very understandably, given their situation) accepted an offer in haste.

We've been on both sides of the fence. Firstly when moving to a completely new area and desperately trying to find a place to rent (200 mile round trip to view and hardly any houses available) when the EA phoned us half an hour before our appointment to ask if we were still coming because they were very keen to show us the house - and then when we called back to confirm that we wanted to rent it, just as we were leaving said house following the viewing, we were informed by a smug person in their office that whilst we were there someone else had phoned them and got in first. Yes it was only rental, but we were living 100 miles away, had nowhere else to view, and we really liked that house. We were beyond furious and frustrated.

Other situation is when we were looking to buy the house we live in now, which is our 'forever home'. When making our offer the EA hinted rather unsubtly at what price we should offer at, and we found out afterwards that somebody else had put in an offer £5K below our offer and had it rejected but had insisted that the EA informed them if anyone else registered any interest. It seems that all they were told was that we'd turned up, made a higher offer and had it accepted (we had no chain so the EA/vendor may have 'preferred' us - and understandably they were apparently mightily hacked off.

I hope it works out for you, OP - though if the other people really want that house then I can see a bidding war starting. (Which I imagine would make the EA very happy indeed!)

HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 06/02/2017 20:57

Well it's the way the property market works in England so you may as well take advantage of the opportunities given to buyers under the system. If you don't like the way the system works, you can campaign to change it, but don't go shooting yourself in the foot just because you don't agree with the process!

Having said that, in my opinion, offers and acceptances should be binding - the way they are in Scotland and Canada and presumably elsewhere.

MidniteScribbler · 07/02/2017 02:09

Having said that, in my opinion, offers and acceptances should be binding - the way they are in Scotland and Canada and presumably elsewhere.

The whole chain system baffles me. Over here in Australia, you write your offer on a contract and sign it, agent goes to the seller, if they accept, they sign it. Done. Outside of the occasional 'subject to sale' clause and inspections, then there is a date set for settlement and the solicitors do their thing. None of this waiting for ten different properties to sell and settle before you can finalise on yours.

wettunwindee · 07/02/2017 06:27

WaitedForGodot

Definitely agree that gazumping later into the progress is super shitty! Not a hint of an argument there!

At what stage is it acceptable then?

I think you're behaving very poorly. Hopefully the seller has the same morals as your Mum. Alternatively, reading another thread in a months time where the same vendor has accepted an offer over yours would be quite satisfying. Do unto others... and all that.

We accepted an offer before over the telephone with the buyer saying, "for £xxx, will you remove it from the market immediately". We did and would have stood buy that.

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/02/2017 06:34

But what do you do when you are selling a property Midnite? You will be moving and most likely buying another thus creating a chain. The system you describe is equally baffling to me. Where do people move to if there is no chain?

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/02/2017 06:37

wett. In the first couple of days I would have thought. As this is the agent not doing their job properly. As in ops example. And mine upthread. It is also perfectly acceptable for the vendor to refuse to take the property off the market until proof of funds has been ascertained. So in principle mortgage or bank statement if cash purchase.

wettunwindee · 07/02/2017 06:42

It is also perfectly acceptable for the vendor to refuse to take the property off the market until proof of funds has been ascertained.

Of course. It's perfectly acceptable for the vendor to anything they wish. That is as long as it is what they said to the person with whom the deal was agreed and that doesn't seem to be the case here..