To think Bristish Airways paying a wage of £12'000 a year to new cabin crew is a disgrace

[jdoe8]

I don't blame the new requites for striking over this. My cleaner probably makes over double this and cabin crew do have to go through rigorous testing. It's a bit of a national disgrace IMO.

Don't you just love this race to the bottom?

I would be surprised if cleaners get more. Isn't is usually at minimum wage if they are employed?

People who clean as self employed might get a higher hourly rate, but won't most of them be working part time. To earn double the basic of cabin crew they would have to be doing full time and then some? Also remember that self employed people don't get sick or holiday pay and have travel expenses etc.

Agree that while the basic for cabin crew is disgustingly low, they actually earn more due to travel and shift allowances and will have low expenses because they get a lot of their meals etc paid for.

It's probably a great job for a young person with no ties who can live at home between work or rent a flatshare because they won't be at home much. I would also be surprised if airlines have trouble recruiting whatever the pay.

£12K is the basic pay before flight allowances, which are meant to make it up to a decent wage, BUT...

There's no guarantee of how much work they'll get. And this is a worry.

I commenced training with BA cabin crew a few years ago, but bailed out when I heard how few flights were available for the Gatwick-based staff at that time and when I saw how minging the working conditions were

I am a current BA pilot working daily with these cabin crew. Before anyone says "but my friend is/was cabin crew...." I'd just like to point out that there are various different cabin crew contracts within BA:

Worldwide fleet are the ones who have been around for years and earn a good salary. They went on strike in 2010 after refusing to accept the cost-cutting that other departments were enduring (bitb looks back at own pay cut that she'll never get back!) The company stated that all departments must contribute towards the savings and that cabin crew must too - even if it wasn't the current lot who would make the savings. A line was drawn and the old cabin crew kept their pay without cuts, and since then all new cabin crew have been employed on the new Mixed Fleet contract. This is a simplified précis of what was a very long drawn out dispute.

Mixed Fleet are the new cabin crew who have joined since the last strike. Feelings are still strong enough that Mixed Fleet and Worldwide are not rostered to fly the same routes. There has been a very distinct lowering of the terms and conditions for Mixed Fleet. They work more intensive hours for less money. Some of the rosters they are asked to do are fatiguing. (Fatigue in aviation means being at the point of such long term exhaustion you need a considerable recovery period, and is taken seriously by the CAA.) I have helped fill in the form stating why the next flight will be delayed while they get the minimum legal rest (no lounging around on a beach on those occasions!) so I feel reasonably qualified to comment here.

There is also Gatwick fleet who have long been on T&Cs below that of their Worldwide colleagues at Heathrow (nicknamed Golden Runways by the Gatwick lot) but are presently on better T&Cs than Mixed Fleet.

If all of that sounds complicated, that is because it is and it's the way the company like it. Worldwide feel as though Mixed fleet were brought in to undermine their status and pay, and Mixed Fleet feel Worldwide pulled up the drawbridge behind them. Neither fleet is strong enough now to take the company on by themselves to defend their T&Cs, which was precisely the plan.

its disgusting

people like BA and flying BA, and much if that is down to the fact that have professional cabin crew

they treat their crew LIKE SHIT, its like they hate them. I think it casts them in a very poor light

Cabin crew are basically responsible for hundreds of people in a box in the air. yet they treat them like a glorified waitress

baffles me

£12K plus meals, accommodation etc. It's not great but not dreadful; especially for those who just do it for a few years as an opportunity to see the world and then give it up.

back, bingo! my old friend a wagon dragon so I know all of this

Unsure why you've singled their salaries out as being a disgrace. There are many important but low paid jobs. I work in care and get a few pence above minimum wage. I give out medication, have done cpr, assist people to do everyday tasks that they can no longer do etc etc. Also, I doubt your cleaner gets more. Surely we should all put effort into making the national living wage a wage people can genuinely live off. There's no doubt their job is hard, but many low paid jobs are hard physically and mentally. It might be a better idea to rally for change on a wider scale.

Oohbetty, I agree with you. It's dreadful that people are paid so poorly the taxpayer has to make up the difference.

Thank you backinthebox.

It is a race to the bottom is n't it. These companies that pay large dividends to shareholders - do they not feel any shame that there staff can't afford a reasonable standard of living. Imagine trying to buy a house within easy reach of Heathrow. Starting a family - the extra allowances are supposed to compensate for irregular and antissocial shift work, to cover the extra costs that come with that not take a job up to a living wage.

Life has always been unfair but we seem to be firmly in reverse as far as pay and conditions for the majority are concerned.

Backinthebox has summed it up perfectly.

ShowMePotatoSalad

It really isn't. They might be earning 3.20 p/h at 16-18 but it has to rise legally as they get older until they qualify and by the time they are 30 they can be earning 40....60 sometimes as high as £100k a year working as highly skilled workers.

Meanwhile those earning £20k at 16 are still earning that at 30 year old working as unskilled and semi skilled workers.

There has to be an incentive for companies to shell out thousands in ruined products, training courses etc that comes with hiring an apprentice.

Unsure why you've singled their salaries out as being a disgrace

I think for me, its because its shocking bad business. BA saw reduced turnover in 2015, 11.3 versus 11.7 (BN)
However their operating profit leapt from 976l to 1.26 of M

clearly they made a decision at board level that cutting staff salaries and treating them like shit was the way to achieve this cost saving

Its such a shame, and |I am sure this technique will eventually bite them as if start to get that Ryanair experience-- what's to differentiate them from the lower cost firms?

Thanks so much for that back in the box! Very good to have an insiders view on it.

I think many people here are very unaware that cabin crew is not the glamorous job it was many decades ago! Vast majority don't see exotic locations, just airports for a brief break before going back home after a long days work! It's not a long flight, then relaxing on the beach for a few days on expenses in a 5* before flying back home.

I don't see why cabin crew would be a well-paid job. Asian airlines have better service and lower prices, and presumably pay very little.

It seems like an inevitable outcome of globalization. People working on cruise ships get paid much less again.

Got very recent personal experience of this with a close family member. The money is shit and the job is even shitter. Long periods on home standby, airport standby and constantly changing rostas, so you can never plan a life around your work. Stuck it for just over a year and travelled all over the world and saw a bit of it (well what you can see from a night or two in an exotic location).

All those saying you get perks and expenses - er nope. Very little in the way of perks and expenses have to be used as in spent and receipts obtained before you can claim anything back. The days of bumping up wages by not spending your expenses allocation are long gone.

The best part of being B.A.Cabin Crew is the six weeks training. Friendships made, lots of camaraderie and a great sense of achievement when you get your 'wings' and the excitement of getting your uniform etc., but after that it's downhill.. You never know where you are going and who with as you rarely fly with the same crew member twice.

Within 6 months a third of those my family member trained with had jacked it in, and by the time she left, several more had gone. B.A aren't bothered though - there are plenty queueing up to take their place.

I've been thinking about this and am slightly persuaded.

Jobs are highly paid primarily if the skills and knowledge to do them take years to achieve and if the natural talents needed to be good at the job are rare. If both of those are true then the popularity of the career choice doesn't come in to it - eg there are loads of people who want to be a premier league footballer but 99.99998% of them don't have the talent or skill.

The less true it is that the natural talents are rare and the skills and knowledge difficult and timeconsuming to acquire, then the more strongly the factor of popularity of the job influences the pay rate.

Now 99% of the time the skills and knowledge needed to work as air crew are not onerous or complex and we'll more than half the population could do the job. The natural talents needed for doing the job well when everything is going well are also present in more than half the population. For this reason the pay is strongly influenced by popularity and so the pay is shit. It doesn't matter that the reality is that you don't really get to see the world and will want to leave after a year on average - if the applications inbox is constantly flooded by new hopefuls it is cheaper to put another newbie through 6 weeks of training than it is to pay an existing staff member £2k more. Given all the above the current pay for air crew is about right.

The problem is that all the above is based on the 99% of the time when nothing is going wrong.

When something goes wrong, suddenly the skills and knowledge needed to keep a plane full of people on the verge of panic calm and doing the right things are rare and difficult to acquire, and the natural talents needed to do it well are rare. So the pay for that person should be much much higher.

but then, even if you say that you are doing a job with a market value of £12k for 99% of the time and a job with a market value of £65k for 1% of the time, that only translates to an overall salary of £12.5k rather than £12k

It's not exactly brain surgery is it?
Tea? Coffee?
Looks boring

Frankly BA crew are some of the best in the business - just look at how well they have coped with the runway fire at Houston and the 777 incident at Heathrow. Yes, 99% of the time it may be serving tea and coffee but if it all goes tits up, I want a BA crew. I do think that MF contracts are underpaid, and I think BA are looking for any excuse to replace them with non-EU (or at least non U.K. Based staff), if possible. BA are competing against the Middle East airlines with minimal labour laws and hefty government support, and with their current in flight offering they do seem to be on a race to the bottom. The second I get a whiff of that cost cutting being applied to safety, I'm off.

Really Kilmuir?

You don't think the job might potentially involve slightly more than serving tea and coffee and being nice when it takes 6 weeks training and probably regular refreshers too?

Not just the potential for crashes, or other serious plane issues, there are drunk or violent passengers or those who become seriously ill. Who do you think tried to save the life of Carrie Fisher when she had a heart attack on a plane?

We flew long haul recently with Thomson and the crew were as miserable as sin.

The train staff on the East Coast line to London are far more sociable, helpful and pleasant.

Who do you think tried to save the life of Carrie Fisher when she had a heart attack on a plane?

It wasn't cabin crew alone that saved her life, but a combination of crew and passengers, one of who had medical training.

My friend works for BA and it's had a lot of restructuring to its detriment and all these people saying it's a desirable job yada yada are we all in a race to the bottom ? It's true we are a nation of poor pay and low business taxes and we seem to accept that jeez it's not great is it !

I know quite a few cabin staff so get to hear all the stories

Two have worked for BA, but both left after about 2 years becaseu fo working conditions. They are now both with Virgin and feel they are treated much better.

They admit themselves that whilst it is bloody hard work, the life is great. If you do long haul you get a lot of one or two nights, often in very nice hotels with everything paid for.

Sorry bit of derailment Was talking to a trainee yesterday all dolled up with heels make up and hair apparently if they don't turn up like that hey are sent home !
Good make up is expensive though so that's additional expense on a low wage.
She wants to work for BA and made the off hand comment that they are the strictest about the dollying up thing.
Just wondering how all that dollying fits with what the MPs were saying last week.
Surely illegal?