Would you let your kids take part in this?

[oliviapl]

NC as this is a bit outing.

I have been asked to do an assembly in a local school to my university. Its a way to get kids interested in STEM and several people are going on separate days to give a talk/assembly session on their area of study/work. Mine is forensic and crime science. As you can imagine trying to pick something that isn't too gory but not too boring but not too difficult was really hard.

I've eventually decided to go with a talk on forensic archaeology (digging up bones). I am going to give a little talk about what it is, the different bones, how we can use these bones to tell sex, age and height of a person. Then I will have several activity stations (all the same but lots so small groups can each have a go) where the kids can dig up some bones, lay them out, label them and use the skills I talked about in the session to determine sex and age.

The age group is 8-11 years old. Do you think this will be okay for them?
I have to submit the idea myself and I don't want to look like an idiot by suggesting something too old or something parents might not find appropriate. I don't have much experience with kids so not really sure myself. Any feedback would be great, thanks!

Northend77 Thank you! It would be great if you can have it at your science festival, involving forensics is a great way to introduce something new to science rather than the main three.
I know there are companies that you can hire and they can come and give forensics talks and workshops at schools etc. They will set up a fake crime scene and everything! (I thought this would be too long and too complex for my time scale.) There are a few companies, like this one:

www.thinkforensic.co.uk/schools-workshops/

Yes I'd let my children take part.
Death, burial and bodies are appropriate to be discussed IMO as well as the science of investigating whos bones they were!
Don't be put off if you have 1 complaint. The saying "there is always one" is often true.

At 5 my DS was really confused and scared by the idea of burying dead 'people'. Because when you die you go to heaven, right, and hell is somewhere deep underground (RC school), so is being buried the same as going to hell? ...
At 6 he has learned to distinguish (to some extent) body and mind (or soul), can understand that it is not the 'person' being buried but just their dead body/corpse.
I think by age 8 most kids should be fine with the idea, however there may be an odd one here or there who has had no cause to consider death/burial and who may feel worried.

My Y2 child would certainly ask questions such as 'why did they die?' and would be saddened by the idea of some stranger many years ago having died. I can imagine though by Y4 most kids will be more 'tough' and find the gory side of things 'fun'.

I do think you have a little bit of a problem: If you totally de-emphasise the 'human element' of it all (not real bones but casts, no gory details, no sad families, no issues of desecrating as this is all just pretend, 'no let's not speculate on how they died!'...) then it is in danger of becoming a bit boring. It's just another science lesson. Could be done with pretend dinosaur fossils, or plastic bones rather than casts, and anyway, I'm too cool to go digging in sand for a staged thing like that. Ok I'm interested in science so give me the science of it but don't treat me like a baby who is keen on finding pretend fake parts, pretend hidden in sand.

It's the human side to it that makes is special, different from digging up pretend dinosaur bones, and what makes it into your subject/expertise.
But as soon as you emphasise the human element (these are not real bones but casts of real human bones that we found in a cemetery. This one here is a thigh bone. These people died approximately x years ago. Our job is to identify who these bones belong to so that their relatives can know where their poor old granny has been buried) - you may have children who struggle emotionally. Suddenly it is about people, you know?

In answer to your question, yes I would let my kids take part in this. But I would appreciate, as a parent, being informed beforehand quite precisely what will be happening, so as that I could prepare my children for it at home. And/or I would hope that the people leading the session would have given a lot of thought as to how it might affect the children and how you were going to deal with that. E.g. that you have a plan for what to do if a child becomes sad/starts to cry, or if some children start fooling around, discussing causes of death (excited giggling/fooling around can be an indication of struggling with emotions too). I would hope that you would make the science of it as interesting as possible without resorting to the 'human element' more than necessary. So that my child would come home full of stories of what he had learned, rather than gory images of blood and death.

It sounds awesone OP.
The kids will love it!

Sounds wonderful. You should go on a tour around all the schools.

This sounds great in general.

But my youngest child is in this age-bracket and wouldn't cope with this activity (due to bereavement). That is not a reason for you not to do it - other children will love it. And at her school they would know to keep her out of the session and distracted with something different - not a big deal. But just thought I'd alert you in case you want to mention in your proposal that it's an eminently suitable activity for most KS2 children but perhaps not for any who are recently bereaved/particularly sensitive or whatever.

Good luck with it!

That sounds absolutely amazing, OP, and I wish my (older) kid could be there to have a go! He's really interested in forensics.

Also, when he was tiny, and my mother's dog died, he would always politely enquire of her if the dog was buried under the floorboards (ARGH! NO!) when we went to visit, so I think digging up fake bones wouldn't faze him at all.

(This makes my DS sound like a weirdo. He's not, I promise!)

Sounds brilliant - my DDs would love it.

Last year DD1 (10 at the time) went on a series of Forensic Science Masterclasses run over 3 Saturdays by a local Grammar school.

They were given details of the 'murder' of the 3 little pigs. They studied maggot growth, alibis, fingerprints, different types of ink used on a letter, blood spatter patterns to eliminate suspects and determine the killer. She absolutely loved it 😳

She put together a PowerPoint presentation of her findings and presented it to her class!

She also got a lot of respect from the boys in her class for being able to handle live maggots.

BigWeald You've hit the nail on the head of having the human element at the right balance. While I can't totally disregard it as it is a major part of forensics (hence why the age group isn't lower) and I will have to explain that the bones are from casts of real bones and must be handled respectfully can carefully I will have to make sure I don't go into too much detail. This is why I've specifically chosen casts with no trauma on them (death can be seen as peaceful not a murder etc).

All parents will be getting a letter home explaining the bones are casts but are from real bones and not completely fake, that the kids will be allowed to handle them respectfully, I am going to go with any questions about heaven etc will be met with ''Well lots of people believe lots of different things, maybe you can talk more with your teachers about this later'' with a turn around straight back to the information.

All of the kids are being told by the teachers not to mess around etc before hand - they're all from an after school science club so will not be 'forced' to be there so they will be interested (hopefully) as its something they want to attend.

Yes, they'd love it, but not as much as I would!!

It sounds like a fascinating topic to chat to children about. My DD is 6, and she and her peers are very interested in all the "yukky" stuff, so this would be right up their street.

MrsScrubbingbrush Sounds great! I love maggots (we use them in the lab and I don't mind grabbing them by the handful) plus they don't bite like the beetles do! I am a huge campaigner for girls to get into STEM so glad to hear she got involved and loved it

In the letter there will be a contact number to get in touch with the teacher who runs the science club for parents to express concern/explain if they have had a bereavement in the family that may mean a child is unable to attend. They can also just say they don't want their kids involved too, no questions asked.

If you were digging up dinosaur bones my 4 year old would be there like a shot.

In the letter there will be a contact number to get in touch with the teacher who runs the science club for parents to express concern/explain if they have had a bereavement in the family that may mean a child is unable to attend. They can also just say they don't want their kids involved too, no questions asked.

You've thought of everything!

Hope it goes well and everyone enjoys it - including you!

I did a cheers event (at a senior school) the other evening. I was tired and a bit ill so dreading it but in the end I got really enthused by explaining all the things I like about my job to a captive audience.

Careers event.

My DD would love this and she is only 6!

You've thought of everything! To be honest that was the teacher's idea! He said they need to be able to call someone and I don't want 30 kids parents chasing me up

I think it sounds brilliant!

Both my DSs (now 9 and 4) have a great time "digging up" dinosaur bones at the museum, they'd love this too, especially since you're taking care to make sure the bone casts are "nice" ones.

I'd love it too, tbh! Hope it goes well. :)

Sound great, my 9 year old D's would love it.
If you are worried about about any aspect of it, you could run it past the head teacher?

I have to give a 'proposal' thing to the teacher but wanted to come here first to make sure it was okay. I don't want to go to the teacher and have not thought of something/suggest this when its no appropriate etc and look like an idiot.

Just one more point: It may be the children (some of them) who bring in the 'human' element. Maybe persistently. It's not just hard to 'find the right balance' but also to keep it there when the kids steer it away from there.

My kid would be very interested in the science. But he would also be asking: Who was this? Did they have any children? Are their children sad that they have died? Why did they die? Weren't the doctors able to make them better?
And the simple fact that somebody died would make him feel sad.

What I'm saying is, you have had years to learn to see 'bones' and an 'object of scientific investigation'. For you (I assume) these are puzzles for you to solve. It's science, it's logic, it's reason. It demands due respect (handling human remains) but it's still science. And these people whose remains you study have nothing to do with you personally, they do not affect you emotionally.
Whereas for some kids it may be very hard to see beyond 'dead person'. And to detach themselves emotionally.
(Some won't care I'm sure, for them it will be just the same as working with dinosaur fossils. But some can be sensitive little souls.)

So it would be your job to guide them towards that way of thinking ('it's a scientific puzzle' rather than 'it's a dead person'). Not just once, but maybe persistently throughout the session, having strategies to bring them back to the science. And that can be hard, because presumably it comes very naturally to you by now, and you hardly realise how much you de-personify the remains you work with, how much you detach yourself emotionally. When you are not aware of doing something yourself, it is hard to teach others to do the same thing.

my 8 yr old daughter would absolutely love this!

Sounds good. I guess I would want it to be historical deaths, not we've found this skeleton from 1949!

Plus how did they did. I know that some bones found will have knife marks that may mean they were ritually sacrificed or that they have been cut up (and eaten!) I'd want to avoid all those moral questions for such an age group and look at people who had fallen down a pit, been eaten by a tiger or died of old age!

es, I know 1949 is history too, I think you know what I mean!