To think that there are no actual 'choices' for year 9 options GCSE's?

[gluteustothemaximus]

I don't get it.

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Such a massive deal is being made of options, choosing options, going to meetings about options, pre-meetings about options evening, how it is the most important time in a child's life at school.

DS has no choices for 7 of the GCSE's. He has to take Maths, English, English Language, Triple Science, RS.

Then he gets to 'choose' History or Geography.

Then he gets to 'choose' a MFL of Spanish or French.

Then he gets to 'choose' one more out of all his favourite subjects. Art, DT, Music, Business Studies, PE. He loves all of these, but can only choose one.

AIBU in thinking, that there are no actual choices but one?

DS is at a school called Latymer Upper in London. For the first time this year they are letting them drop a whole science subject. This does not mean doing "double science" as opposed to "triple". They can drop eg. Physics completely. I don't know if this is in line with the new GCSE grading system or syllabus?

Core subjects are - English Lang, English Lit, Maths, 1 MFL, 2 Science Subjects

Then they choose 4 from -

• another MFL (Spanish, French, German or Mandarin)
• a third Science
• Latin
• Greek
• History
• R.S
• Geography
• Art
• Design
• Computing
• Music
• Drama

You would obviously be dissuaded from doing something like three modern languages plus classical languages as well.

The school also runs its own GCSE course called "World Perspectives" which links politics, economics, geography, history and is compulsory.

So if you opt to do 3 sciences, you only have 3 other subjects to choose from. 2 sciences gives more leeway for the humanities, languages or arts.

I feel old now ... but it was within twenty years.

The impression I got - and this was more sixth form colleges than universities now I come to think of it - was that double award was perfectly acceptable so long as that was all your school offered. If you could have done triple but didn't, they'd be asking why.

Now, obviously if you're catching up the students who had no choice, you can catch up those who did, but I understood the point.

And fwiw my Oxbridge offer (m.2000) was conditional on my sitting all the subjects I declared: because it was modular I could have dumped one or two subjects once I had my offer and cashed in early, but the college said they would retract the offer if I did.

The past is a different country, etc.

The narrowing of option choices is due to pressure from government/OFSTED and how an individual school chooses to react to this pressure.

Schools are judged on how many students achieve the EBacc - so at least a grade C in English, Maths,science, a language and either history or geography.

Secondly, instead of being judged on %of GCSE passes they are now judged on their Progress 8 scores. Basically this awards points to the best 8 subjects that a student passes. They have to take maths and english (which get double points) and then a language and a humanity and science. In most schools, pupils study English language and literature so this then only leaves one more subject to make 8.

Many schools are now deciding to limit the students to only 8 subjects, as this is all that they are judged on. The thinking being that more time can be spent on fewer subjects, thereby raising grades and the P8 score.

Other, in my opinion, more enlightened schools, will see the importance in actually educating children in the broadest sense of the word. They will allow students to study art subjects, possibly more practical subjects such as DT or PE. These subjects are not valued in P8. These schools ultimately put themselves at risk of unfair criticism and judgement from OFSTED as they aren't "playing the game" but actually are doing the best by the students.

Finally, finances also come into it. It's obviously much cheaper to run a very narrow timetable with full classes than to offer a variety of courses with maybe only 10 or 15 students in each clasd.

Ultimately it depends if we want our children taught to pass exams and achieve targets or to be well educated, well rounded young adults.

It's all changed a lot since I was at school.

We did compulsory:
Science (dual award for top set, equivalent to two GCSEs, single for others)
Maths
English Lang and English lit - taught as one subject but two separate gcses

Then we chose between French or German (yup, just those two)
Then we chose between history, geography or religious studies
Then we chose between resistant materials, graphics, food tech or textiles
And then we had to chose two subjects from any of the above or art, music, drama, business studies, sociology, IT.

I thought it worked well - meant you had your English, maths and science, a humanity, a language and a technology plus if you were good at languages or wanted to do music and drama, you could. It was quite a big school though - and this was back in the days where a C was a pass, rather than kids/teachers/parents being disappointed with A's rather than A*'s.

You can thank gove for this as he brought us progress 8 and the ebacc

On the triple/double science thing which is completely alien to me in Scotland.... how can it make sense?

Someone like my child who is headed for a medical/biomedical degree is doing Biology and Chemistry and stopping doing Physics at this point. He can then go on and do higher qualitfications in both of the science subjects, one, or neither.

But if you do this "double science" thing when in effect you're covering 66% of the curriculum for biology, chemistry and physics, how is that better than dropping one science totally and doing a GCSE in each individual subject rather than just "science". Or you end up like the OP's son, railroaded into triple science when actually, you're only interested in Chemistry and would quite like to take Home Ec or Drama too.

But if you do this "double science" thing when in effect you're covering 66% of the curriculum for biology, chemistry and physics, how is that better than dropping one science totally and doing a GCSE in each individual subject rather than just "science"

It's better because there's a lot of crossover in all the science subjects so you're much better being grounded in all three than strong in one or two. The double award is a good course that's absolutely sufficient for a level.

I think - will find out tomorrow, but have not had any indication that it will change - that DD will get to choose from 5 option blocks like DS.

It is suggested that they should take a language and a humanity. It is not recommended to do all 3 of drama, music and art because of the coursework requirements. Students with SEN or those who need a lot of extra learning support even if not SEN have study skills in 1 block, but still have 4 choices.

3 additional GCSEs (2 languages and a specialist PE option) are offered as twilight / evening / some weekend courses.

It genuinely does feel like a choice. DS does double science, 2 languages, 2 humanities and a practical subject on top of Maths and 2 English GCSEs. The school teaches A-level from the starting point of double science GCSEs and gets very high results, in line with similar schools that do triple and teach A level from the starting point of triple. DD will probably end up doing double science, 1 language, 1 humanity [the one DS doesn't do], 1 or 2 design tech courses and art - a very different pathway through the options booklet!

Other than that

Ours has much more choice, they have to do a few core ones but the res they can choose. It was one of the reasons we chose the school.

The problem is that schools are now being measured on an average score taken from 10 subjects (although maths and English count twice). There are limitations in that schools can't count more than one arts subject in this measure so it is not in the school's interest to offer them in different option blocks.

I would like to explain ^^ in more detail but I'm using the Android app and it's crap.

Froome it is absolutely not true that more than one arts subject can not be counted fir either Progress or Attainment 8

Maths
English
English Lit
Science X 2 or three
Language or humanity

As most children take 9/10 subjects in total that leaves between 2/3 spaces for any other subject depending on the science option chosen.

Even ebacc which includes a language & a humanity leaves space for two arts subjects if double science is chosen.

The only subjects which can't count twice are those with a discount code due to too similar content so for example Btec music & GCSE music.

"Progress 8 is based on a calculation of pupils’ performance across 8 qualifications, called Attainment 8. These qualifications
are:

1. A double weighted mathematics element that will contain the point score of the pupil’s English Baccalaureate (EBacc) mathematics qualification.
2. An English element based on the highest point score in a pupil’s EBacc

English language or English literature qualification. This will be double weighted provided a pupil has taken both qualifications. In 2016 an English (combined) qualification can be included and double weighted.

1. An element which can include the three highest point scores from any of the EBacc qualifications in science subjects, computer science, history

, geography, and languages. For more information see the list of qualifications that count in the EBacc The qualifications can count in any combination and there is no requirement to take qualifications in each of the ‘pillars’ of the EBacc.

1. The remaining element contains the three highest point scores in any three other subjects, including English language or literature ( if not counted in the English slot), further GCSE qualifications (including EBacc subjects) or any other technical awards from the DfE approved list"

So it looks to me as if DD will be as able to count art + Product design + textiles in the last element, as DS is to count his extra language, practical subject and other humanity...

I'm so glad my son's school lets them choose history and geography if they want. I hope he can jettison MFL. We don't have a meeting till next year so am not sure.

Thankfully I never had to choose an Art subject (was crap at all of them).

The funny thing is I got a better mark in French (again, was a bit crap), than Geography (which I thought was easy).,

These days, not even sure where my certificates are.
Could just about find the degree one if I had a day to search the loft!

DD can do 2 languages (plus 2 more after school). Or 3 humanities. Or 2 DT + Art. Or 2 PE (1 after school). Computing and ICT.

We didn't have option blocks at my school. I get timetable constraints but they sound pretty annoying especially if you like two subjects within one block.
We had to do Maths, English (lit and lang, obtaining two separate qualifications but taught under 'English'), Biology, Chemistry and Physics (this was a private school). ICT was also 'compulsory' but I was allowed to drop it after a term and do "Learning Support" instead (obv not a lesson- I was diagnosed with specific learning difficulties; not a named condition e.g. dyslexia but slow processing speed whatever that means). We were advised to do an MFL, a humanity and a "creative", with one other option. I went for French, German, RS and Graphic Design- which in hindsight I shouldn't have gone for seeing as I was shit at it, should've gone for Latin instead.

My brother's school is also private, but offered Double Science. (There might've been Triple for the really clever ones, idk.) Pretty much same compulsories except RS was also core (religious school). He was supposed to do a language but because of his SEN (dyslexia/dyspraxia/also slow processing) he'd dropped both his KS3 languages before the end of year nine. He chose History, Geography and Drama.
Because the schools are private I don't know if they "encourage" the EBacc or not- they don't have to adhere to government advice. I wouldn't have liked doing History or Geography at GCSE because I was shit at them.

I am confused, Ds appears to have no choice but to take a language.
Can the school make him do this? He ld rather take either computer science or music.

Thank you.

I agree - it is this ridiculous systme that says every child MUST study every science even if they want to do arts subjects and never touch science again after year 11. My dd is in year 9 and wants to go to a conservatoire to study music. SHe is on a reduced academic curriculum to do 8 subjects rather than 11. But she still has to do combined science -ie all 3 as a double subject. THis means her double GCSE grade for science will be the average of the 3 and she cannot get her head around physics. Rather than letting her do just chemistry - where she'd probably get an A and a second humanity where she would no doubt also get an A she HAS to do the combined science where her inability at physics will no doubt mean she gets a double C (if she is lucky). We are paying fees for this as well - how can it possibly be right to force children to do sciences when they have no intention whatsoever of being scientists. Even DH with 3 sciences and 3 maths A levels thinks this is ridiculous...

Probably get slated for this, but I see little point in forcing a language on pupils. I have less ability to speak the language I got an A in (pre A* days) than the other language I picked up on the hop by travelling in the country for 6 months.

DS isn't so great at languages, and won't be taking languages at A level or beyond, so I agree, not sure why a language is forced.

I laid out his option blocks this evening, and told him to look carefully at them. I then said, choose 3 options, making sure one is history/geography, and one is a MFL.

He looks at the blocks. Then says, 'so I get one choice then?'

His words, not mine. I then explained the thread I'd started, and reasons why choices are becoming more limited.

Turning it around to a positive, I said, forget about what you are choosing to do, think about what you can drop. 'Yay, no more Latin, French or history!'

Languages are in huge decline though. Schools on the continent place much more emphasis on them than we do. My friend is Bulgarian and wasn't allowed to drop any subject at all at school. Not many systems are like ours. Employers do look favourably on languages.
Unfortunately I may be slightly biased as I'm doing a languages degree.

Employers like languages if you have proficiency.

Proficiency in the business world is the sort of level you're at at degree level.

Your mates who stopped after gcse are not getting much advantage.

Before your child drops a language at GCSE be aware that many universities demand a minimum C grade in a language in order to apply, even if the degree subject is completely unrelated. My son studied history but despite excellent A level and GCSE grades he couldn't apply to many universities as he didn't study a language at GCSE.