How would you discipline this racist joke from someone you manage

[davidbrent]

This is identifying but I don't care.

So a work colleague was complaining that her computer was running really slow to which another colleague piped up:

'paint it black it will run faster'. Then everyone burst into fits of laughter and it was forgotten. This colleague does like to have a joke at work but it good at the job.

Locality manager didn't seem to have any issues and didn't mention anything. I'm sure it's forgotten within the office. Everyone working here is White British. Luckily a Nigerian colleague was on a visit at the time.

Would you be concerned by this joke. Would you discipline the employee? I would certainly have at least called him into the office but let locality manager take the lead as he was in the room too.

Not everyone who feels this should go through official channels has suggested anyone should be sacked. Of course there is a disciplinary process and one would hope a verbal warning and evaluating training and team culture would result in lessons being learned.

So, should we say, "The fastest runners are usually black", to not be racist, but we mustn't say, "Black people are fast runners". Is that right?

I think that's actually what people mean. Nobody actually means that every black person can beat every white person in a race.

We are all people of colour, just different shades.

I think this was racist and deserves a discipline. How you do it is up to you. Use your managerial skills.

So Auntyhiro do you think the term 'little Englander' is offensive and racist?

Well anyone that isn't white that I know is offended by the term so I'll go with how they feel.

It's never used to describe white people. It implies that white is set apart from the others somehow.

I agree with Wettun. Lets not bother with a quick word or a verbal warning. Lets move straight to 'Managing them out' and trying to get them sacked. ASAP.

I have a senior collegue who quite often comes out with sexist comments. I always make a point of saying "Oh you must be overdue your equality and diversity training". He has never said anything to me particularly which has offended me but I have heard him say things to other staff members which I would certainly be taking further if I were them. (I have suggested they should, or I could for them, but they don't want to). He does not mean to be offensive and thinks he is funny so in my junior role I find it best to match his jokey tone. It's not ideal, but at least I'm saying something.

I realise you said you were going to have a word on Monday so this comment may come too late. But are you certain the local manager didn't have a quiet word, out of your earshot, much as you are presumably planning to do?

I think you should talk to the local manager first. They may surprise you and say 'oh I spoke to him and I've requested we all get a diversity training refresher'.

Give him / her a chance to do the right thing.

I agree with others that it is a racist comment and should not be ignored. However some 'retraining' for all may be helpful too. I'm surprised that a young person would think this ok. In an old person possibly they may not have grown up with PC and it may be more excusable.

For those who don't think it's racist, have you ever been in a minority when people have made generalisations about people of your background? It makes you feel a lot more vulnerable when you are in the minority. And this added to the background of slavery, oppression and inequality makes it worse.

It is completely not the same as a scientific conversation about certain black athletes.

Katy of course it is about how oppressed people have been and for how long. Of course it fucking is. You either can't or won't see that - which bring us right back to the question - moron or racist.

I can't believe how many people tolerate racism in the workplace when they are in a position to set the tone.

I've checked my employers policy this morning. The manager would be gone for gross misconduct. It's explicitly clear that a manager who doesn't refer discriminatory issues to their manager as well as HR, with the exception of a junior employee reporting someone more senior, will be subject to gross misconduct proceedings.

I support my team and their diversity. I consider myself fortunate to have such a great group of people working very hard under me. I'm also at the client site so it's the firms reputation on the line too. I'm in the us and this election has been extremely challenging as a manager. I've had plenty of team chats and reminded my team of our core values which start with respect. I have this morning to figure out the impact of this immigration change on my team. I have two people from the seven countries banned for the next 90 days. I also have someone who entered the country as a Rwandan refugee. This action makes them feel very uncomfortable in the country they call home.

@conserve - a company's HR policy should not take into account how oppressed people have been as a category i.e. black people. It should take into account all employees. Otherwise the policy itself is being racist. And if you can't understand that then maybe you should be directing the question of moron or racist directly at yourself.

a company's HR policy should not take into account how oppressed people have been as a category i.e. black people. It should take into account all employees

Yeah. Not sure that was my argument though.

You're quite right. We're lucky the Nigeria guy was off that day otherwise racism might have occurred.

Phew!

@Want2bSupermum

I'm in the us

Ah, you should have said. The fear of litigation appears to be the driving force. Well, that or racism. Or absolute political correctness without a modicum of common sense. It's hard to tell.

I've checked my employers policy this morning. The manager would be gone for gross misconduct.

It's explicitly clear that a manager who doesn't refer discriminatory issues to their manager as well as HR, with the exception of a junior employee reporting someone more senior, will be subject to gross misconduct proceedings

Your second comment is contrary to the first. There arw procedures to go through, or do you just dismiss people without a fair hearing in the USA?

Well, it is often much much easier to dismiss in the US than in the UK... But that doesn't change Want2Be's basic point which is that managers should take responsibility for the workplace that they lead, including tackling racism and other discriminatory and / or derogatory language

But that doesn't change Want2Be's basic point which is that managers should take responsibility for the workplace that they lead, including tackling racism and other discriminatory and / or derogatory

I think most people have agreed. It the 'it is automatically gross misconduct' line that people have had an issue with.

@conserve - I'm not saying that racism is remotely acceptable, or that it shouldn't be tackled as and when it occurs. What I am trying to say is that the reaction to it should be proportionate to the event. The OP has described an event where no-one has obviously been offended, and where there was no deliberate intent behind it. It was a crap joke. A proportionate reaction would have been to take the lad aside and point out that it was a comment that could have been taken the wrong way, and he should be more careful of his comments in future, save that sort of thing for down the pub with his mates. Also pointing out that any further comments of the same type could / would face official disciplinary actions. A word in the ear of the locality manager would also be a good idea, and maybe diversity training for all if they have that (to cover all discrimination and not just racism). A lot of PPs have said the same type of thing, but some are gung-ho for the full disciplinary, and that should be saved for situations where someone is being deliberately offensive, not just gormless.

wet My employer has a very diverse workplace and they have set the tone that racism is not tolerated. The policy is not there because of fear of litigation but wanting to have an inclusive working environment.

piglet It isn't contradictory at all. Basically, if the manager had made the racist comment the employees under them can report to HR without reporting to their manager above them, other peer managers or those above their direct manager. Since it was a employee to the locality manager who made the comment the locality manager is required, per company policy, to report the incident to myself and HR, not doing so resulting in gross misconduct.

The employee making the comment might just have a stern talking to. I would be pushing for our cultural awareness team to come in and talk to the team plus have my own meeting with the team to explain such comments are not acceptable in this workplace.

katy Actually I will call you out and say that yes you are saying that racism is acceptable in a team when you don't hold a manager accountable for correcting a team member who made a racist comment they are responsible for. The tone set by the manager is extremely important. Also, how do you know no one was offended by the offensive comment? The team members don't speak up because they can't, they fear losing their jobs as a result of speaking out because they have been offended. As a manager it is my job to stand up, speak up and enable my team to work in an environment without offensive comments being thrown around as a 'joke'.

katy Actually I will call you out and say that yes you are saying that racism is acceptable in a team when you don't hold a manager accountable for correcting a team member who made a racist comment they are responsible for. The tone set by the manager is extremely important. Also, how do you know no one was offended by the offensive comment? The team members don't speak up because they can't, they fear losing their jobs as a result of speaking out because they have been offended. As a manager it is my job to stand up, speak up and enable my team to work in an environment without offensive comments being thrown around as a 'joke'.
I haven't said that the manager wasn't accountable for correcting the staff member! I've expressly said that the OP SHOULD have a word with the employee. I haven't said that the locality manager should definitely be spoken to as it's not clear what their role is compared to the OP's, but I have said that it would be a good idea. No, I don't know that no staff were offended any more than you know that they were. I'm going on the picture given to us by the OP who clearly says that the other staff laughed. I'm not making up "facts" to suit my purposes, I'm basing my opinion on what has been told to us. But don't let actually reading what's been written stand in the way of you spouting nonsense.

The employee making the comment might just have a stern talking to. I would be pushing for our cultural awareness team to come in and talk to the team plus have my own meeting with the team to explain such comments are not acceptable in this workplace.

^ that isn't what you said. You said 'they would be gone for gross misconduct'

I'm going to ask again.
If the comment had been "stick a bit of lipstick and a bra and knickers on it and it will clean better" would everyone be saying "ooh just have a quiet word "?

If the comment had been "stick a bit of lipstick and a bra and knickers on it and it will clean better" would everyone be saying "ooh just have a quiet word "?
He'd have been twatted round the head by the nearest woman in the office and no-one would have even mentioned the word disciplinary on here because the whole situation wouldn't have seemed worth mentioning.

piglet I said the locality manager would be gone not the employee. Says it when I say 'The manager would be gone for gross misconduct.'

The employee who made the comment should have been dealt with by the locality manager with the OP informed by the locality manager as to what happened and what was being done. It doesn't appear the manager has done this so I would be following procedure to approach HR with a gross misconduct against the manager. The employee would then be dealt with by me and HR. It isn't right the employee who made the comment loses their job when they could get to the required professional, inclusive standard with some training. The manager not spotting the need for maintaining a professional, inclusive environment is an entirely different issue that is taken very seriously.

piglet I said the locality manager would be gone not the employee. Says it when I say 'The manager would be gone for gross misconduct.'

That may be the case in the US.

It wouldn't usually be the case in the UK.

HTH