Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To expect school teachers to actually educate my child?

460 replies

ICancelledTheCheque · 27/01/2017 10:41

Maybe I'm being a bit PFB but this has really irked me.

DD is Y7 in a big academy secondary school. She showed me some work she had done - in three paragraphs there were six spelling errors and five grammatical errors. The teacher didn't mark up a single thing and just put big green ticks and irritating smiley faces on her work and wrote "excellent work" at the end.

But it wasn't excellent work. How is she going to learn if they don't flag this stuff up? Is this the norm these days? Doesn't bode well for GCSEs if so!!

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 02/02/2017 11:52

Telling me it is part of my job doesn't make more hours in the day. On good days I have 96 books to mark. On less good days I can have 128 + 32 pieces of homework. I obviously also have to deliver lessons, plan them, meet parents, run a club, put help in place for specific children, deal with everyday and less than everyday emotional and social issues....

Clearly, you are overworked. Are you also saying that the students are over-assessed, perhaps with 'busy work'? Just curious...

Ohyesiam · 02/02/2017 11:52

Hav' nt read the thread, so sorry of this has been said. I volunteer at my son's school, and I've learnt there are different things they have to accomplish as they get older. So in year 2, for example, there is a massive list of key words they need to be able to spell by the end of the school year, so those will be corrected, but spelling a year 6 word wrong will not necessarily be corrected. Same with grammar. It's incremental learning, and makes them feel like they can achieve.

cantkeepawayforever · 02/02/2017 12:55

YetAnother,

Interesting question.

We (primary) revised our homework policy quite recently, to focus only on the things that we really believed made a difference - daily reading, learning of times tables, in higher years routine arithmetical calculations for the 4 operations. We did end up adding spelling + 'write a sentence using your spelling words' homework, tbh much more because parents reviewing the policy demanded it rather than because we felt that method of practising spelling made a huge difference to in-school everyday spelling.

In terms of book marking, again in primary, in my experience it is normal for every teacher to be expected to mark every book in between lessons in the same subject (so daily for Maths / English, maybe 1x a week science, 2x per week history / geography etc).

I don't know whether this is 'over assessment' - again, in primary in my experience it is normal to be asked for the following lesson / activity, especially in English and Maths, to in some way respond to how the children performed in the previous lesson. So for example, if when marking I notice a specific difficulty, or specific children achieving very highly, then I am expected to show how I respond to that with e.g. specific teaching of an area of difficulty, or further extension for those who have achieved well and are secure.

I don't know how that 'feedback loop' - at its simplest, teach, do, mark, adjust teaching - would work without the marking step. I know that a full 'circle all errors with red pen' is not necessary in order to be able to assess how a child has done, and what the next steps for the next lesson are, but equally NOT marking at all might, in a class of 32, mean that I might miss some children who were achieving well / poorly.

Obviously, not every lesson has a written outcome - photos, drawings, objects, discussions, videos, various electronic forms are also frequent lesson outcomes, and so there will be days when the 'traditional' marking is lower.

I suppose it depends on the purpose of marking. It seems to me it has two - to communicate to the producer of the work how well they are doing, and what they might need to do to improve, and, via the simple process of reviewing work, to communicate to the teacher how the pupil is doing and what their next steps are. All marking approaches balance those things: I can achieve the second simply be looking at the books in many cases, but that doesn't meet the first purpose, of communicating to the student, at all...

cantkeepawayforever · 02/02/2017 13:00

Sorry, missed a bit. I don't know what you mean by 'busy work'. For the age group i teach, it is normal for pupils to 'do something' in response to the lesson - so if teaching a maths method, they will do some calculations using that method. If discussing a character in a book, they may show their understanding of the character in a variety of ways, from pictures to role plays to paragraphs of writing. If they do a science experiment, then they will record and discuss their results in some way. It is those 'do somethings' that I mark, if that makes sense?

Sometimes, of course, self or peer marking is entirely appropriate, for example for a series of calculations. However, even then it is useful for me not only to know that X got 3 wrong, it is useful to know what their error was, whether it was the same error each time, and what misconceptions it reveals.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 02/02/2017 13:11

Thanks can'tkeepaway ... that's a lot of marking. I didn't realise that you were primary (I thought secondary) and I guess where I was coming from was that I was wondering if it may be more advantageous to consider fewer deeper, multi-parted, formative assessments (but probably not in primary).

Do you work with the children re what marking means and what it is for? I'm curious, because at university they seem to have little or limited concept. Often, they look at the score and see it as my assessment of their overall worth and as something static ('I am worth x acording to YetAnother', rather than 'this assessment earned me x and I can improve next time'). Many don't read the comments and they seem to have little idea about how to use feedback. I live in fear of handing back papers and I know a lot of colleagues feel the same - hence a lot of soft marking happens.

cantkeepawayforever · 02/02/2017 13:17

YetAnother,

Essentially, each piece of work (Englih and Maths in particular) will have written success criteria, which are pasted in above the piece, and we mark against those. Talking about the success criteria can be part of the 'teaching' part of the lesson, or they can just be reminders ['Yes, we did this yesterday. Yes, I am STILL expecting you to do it today'].

We do also have agreed codes for e.g. check spelling, new paragraph, missing punctuation etc

We don't score daily work in any way, so children look at the feedback because that's what they have, IYKWIM? i do also think that the very quick and direct feedback loop from 'you did this yesterday, you did / didn't manage it so you're learning X today' makes it very clear to them.

cantkeepawayforever · 02/02/2017 13:23

Do your university papers have 'criteria scales' for scores? I wonder whether students might be more familiar with these - DS and DD at secondary have them for significant pieces of work, and they're just like a more formalised version of our success criteria - so they can see where they scored well and where they lost marks?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 02/02/2017 13:44

Thank you for your explanation once again. Yes - we do have these. I struggle with them because sometimes they seem to be 'one size fits all' in terms of setting very general expectations rather than individually addressing what students did or did not do and fitting scores to them is not always easy. But I also face a massive workload with 150 students each term (a total of 450 pieces of marking) so I use them. I do tend to think that non-graded work is an interesting proposition, but I've already been pulled up on this in this thread :).

TheZeppo · 02/02/2017 13:58

I tell kids til I'm blue in the face to read the comments on the body of the work but they never seem to take it in!

I do think we assess too much, but with the changes at KS4 it's pretty much inevitable. I am SO angry about the new exams I can barely speak about them.

I teach English. I correct no more than 4 SPAG things on a page. They just switch off and get defeatist if you do more. They feel thick and stupid- which is awful. Watch a child that has tried really hard and actually achieved something crumple when you mark all mistakes. It's soul destroying.

Ericaequites · 02/02/2017 14:05

I think teachers need to do less administration and more marking. Classes would need to be smaller t do this as well. So much time is wasted on administration.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page