Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

Is Mother being unreasonable regarding inheritance?

97 replies

GoingSlowly · 26/01/2017 12:16

Is my mum being unreasonable regarding the inheritance that may become available following my dad's death.....

My dad is unwell at the moment, and my mum has always had it in her head that he will die before she does. They separated about 20 years ago and now have new partners. When they split up they separated all of their possessions - she had one house, my father had the other, and because her house was worth less she had a cash lump sum to make up the difference. She also recieves just under half of my Dad's lucrative pension. At the moment she is renting out her house because she is living with her boyfriend.

The complication is that both of their names are still on both of their houses and they are still married (I know, ridiculous). They just never finalised it. My mother is now denying that she had a cash lump sum and said her settlement was 'unfair'. We know for a fact how much money she had, so this is untrue. She is telling my brother and I that when our Dad dies, she will inherit his money and house and we will have nothing.

Is it normal for someone who has been practicaly divorced/separated from someone for 20 years, to expect to then inherit from their ex? Dad does not want her to inherit and wants the house to go to us, but he is too frightened to challenge her (divorce) and she evades attempts to change the names on the houses so that they legally have one each.

OP posts:

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/01/2017 13:29

the fact that she is living with someone else etc and the testimony of their children would make (contesting) quite difficult

That's probably true, but just think of the legal costs involved ... there's a reason why they say that only the lawyers win with inheritance disputes

Better, surely, to get it all sorted out in good time (and yes, I agree with PPs that it's a shame DH hasn't seen fit to do exactly that)

user1484317265 · 26/01/2017 13:30

Yes, and df also allows dm to receive rental income from one of their jointly owned properties

If its a jointly owned property, he isn't "allowing her" the income, half of it is legally hers.

lalalalyra · 26/01/2017 13:31

The fact that your father finances her now makes the waters even muddier - especially given he is doing so despite her co-habiting with someone else (that's often a trigger for ending spousal maintenance). Unless your father is prepared to divorce her and sort it now then I'd resign yourself to the fact that your father is prepared for his entire estate to go to your mother. That is what his inaction will suggest because that will leave you and your brother with no legal right to anything that they own jointly and you will not win if you try and contest it because youd father has has 20 years to show his wishes and the only thing he has shown is that he is financing your mother.

LizB62A · 26/01/2017 13:31

And it's not really about your Dad being ill (as in, not to make him feel that anyone thinks he's ill enough to die right now...) - any one of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow so if he really doesn't want her to get it, he needs to sort it out now
Hoping he feels better soon

Ciutadella · 26/01/2017 13:33

Yes true, the pension might continue to be paid depending on the terms of the scheme. DF needs to find that out as well,

HappyFlappy · 26/01/2017 13:35

The very least he can do is have a will leaving his entire half of everything to you and your brother. He really really needs to do that.

This ^^^

It will mean that you and you brother will own half of both houses between you. (That might knock the smile off her face!)

I would suggest that if your dad is willing, he has his bank accounts etc altered to be joint with you and your brother. Then when he dies the money in there will be yours to share. She will have a hard time claiming that she is financially dependent upon him if they have lived apart for 20 years and she has a new partner (I assume she will continue to get a widow's pension from your dad's pension company - if not, then I think the answer will be Tough!)

Any stocks/shares etc he could have put into your names now, or could leave them as he wishes in his will, similarly any personal possessions. I'm surprised your dad doesn't have a will as it seems as though he has been financially savvy - I would check with him if I were you.

Your mother does not need to know about any of these proceedings - it is his private property, and she does not need to be informed. However, I would get things sorted asap so that she can't claim in court that you put undue pressure upon an dying/possibly mentally incapable man.

Best of luck - your mother sounds like a real piece of work!

Somerville · 26/01/2017 13:36

In terms of potential legal costs putting the mother off; there are no win-no fee firms springing up lately.
The father needs to get this sorted.
(I'm not a solicitor but a friend of mine has been very worried about a similar situation with the parents, who are RC so never divorced.)

Somerville · 26/01/2017 13:38

No win-no fee firms specialising in challenging wills on behalf of so-called dependants, are springing up, I mean.

Ciutadella · 26/01/2017 13:41

User: "Yes, and df also allows dm to receive rental income from one of their jointly owned properties
If its a jointly owned property, he isn't "allowing her" the income, half of it is legally hers."

Good point, but dm seems to be taking 100% of the rental income, so df is allowing her to keep 'his' 50% (I assume). He's also presumably agreed to it being rented out at all - would be interesting to know if he had to be a co signatory on the rental agreement with the tenants. At the same time though I suppose you could argue that dm is letting df live in the other jointly owned property without paying her rent - the complications thicken.

Op, this is complicated and I hope df takes legal advice. And sorry that your df is unwell.

HecateAntaia · 26/01/2017 13:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ciutadella · 26/01/2017 13:47

Somerville: "In terms of potential legal costs putting the mother off; there are no win-no fee firms springing up lately."

That is interesting. I was wondering on another thread whether inheritance disputes will become more common as estates become larger (mainly due to property prices). Perhaps they are already happening more frequently than in the past?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/01/2017 13:51

you will not win if you try and contest it because your father has had 20 years to show his wishes and the only thing he has shown is that he is financing your mother

A valid and worrying point ... and maybe something a "no win no fee" solicitor would want to consider before taking on such a case?

bimbobaggins · 26/01/2017 13:58

Is your dad in anyway able to sort things out now? A solicitor can draw up papers very quickly and can even go th the house or hospital.

Kr1stina · 26/01/2017 14:03

I'm I the only one who feels sorry for the DFs partner ?

She's lived with him for , what , nearly 20 years, in a house owned by him and his wife. I assume she has paid bills , helps maintain the property etc. Meanwhile he gives nearly half his pension each month to his wife.

Now her partner is unwell and if he dies, she will be widowed and homeless and also have no right to his pension. And her partner CBA to sort things out legally so she is protected.

Poor woman .

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/01/2017 14:05

Totally agree Kr1stina - it worries me sometimes to see how little attention folk pay to things like this

Somerville · 26/01/2017 14:07

Ciutadella Not so much because they're larger (AFAIK) but because of a case (Jackson) in 2015 that won at appeal. That was an adult child who had been disinherited. But she still managed to prove herself a dependant in some kind of way (as best I remember).
I think some lawyers got ££'s in their eyes off the back of that ruling.

Sizzledsticks · 26/01/2017 14:09

I would want to make sure your mother gets as little as possible on a point of principle. She sounds really grabby. Sorry OP. And sorry to hear your father is unwell.

Ciutadella · 26/01/2017 14:09

Well, we don't really know the df's partner's position although she may herself be able to make a claim against the estate, as mentioned upthread. She may though be a very recent partner, may have her own assets including property - it isn't clear. But it is certainly true that it's important for cohabiting partners to make sure their interests are protected.

ChampagneCommunist · 26/01/2017 14:13

He needs to ensure that both houses are owned as tenants in common, not joint tenants. If they are currently the former, she will inherit.

Switching is to TiC is easy; I am a property lawyer, please feel free to PM me if you need more info

Ciutadella · 26/01/2017 14:15

Somerville I remember that case. Is there an appeal against the judgement - I had a feeling there was?

I suppose my point about more, and larger, estates being the reason is that the game is now likely to be more worth the candle because the amounts in dispute have become quite/very significant. Particularly in the south east, and even more so when families own multiple properties.

shovetheholly · 26/01/2017 14:20

I think kristina may have hit upon a practical way forward: why not challenge your DF on the grounds of the wellbeing of his partner? I am sure he will want her to inherit something!!

I am sure a decent solicitor could sort this out VERY quickly.

SantasLittleMonkeyButler · 26/01/2017 14:23

That's pretty much what I was thinking Kr1stina - if DF has been with his current partner for a long time & they do live together then why hasn't he sorted all of this out to protect her?

He may have naively thought that his DCs would still be provided for by their mother (if their mother does inherit everything). Actually, why is that not the case OP? Why do you think your DM wouldn't pass your share of any inheritance on to you? (Apologies if I've missed that bit.) But, why oh why hasn't he thought about his DP who stands to be homeless when he dies .

lalalalyra · 26/01/2017 14:28

It will mean that you and you brother will own half of both houses between you. (That might knock the smile off her face!)

That won't be the case if the houses are joint tenants rather than tenants in common. Joint tenancies, which the OP thinks the houses are, are basically the same as joint bank accounts - when one account holder dies the older automatically owns the whole account.

A valid and worrying point ... and maybe something a "no win no fee" solicitor would want to consider before taking on such a case?

Even a 'no win no fee' solicitor won't take on a case where the legally married house owner didn't leave a will. There would be no point.

There would also be no point in them taking on a case where someone willed something they didn't own - which would basically be the case if the OP's father tried to will "his" 50% of the houses. He doesn't own 50% of the houses, he and his wife own 100% of the houses either together or solo if one dies. It's not a contestable fact.

I mean, I daresay a certain kind of solicitor may try and contest it, but I bet they'd want paying for it because how could they possibly win?

The only contestable route would be if the OP and her brother are financially dependant on their father and he doesn't make a reasonable provision for them, but their mother is also obviously financially dependant on him so even that would be a tough one.

This sort of thing infuriates me. People too lazy to sort out their own affairs leave it for grieving people to have to deal with instead. I know someone who had to deal with her mother's estate. The woman's three children had to deal with all her affairs, only for them to discover she had no will and hadn't divorced her second husband. So they got to do all the donkey work of sorting her belongings etc only to see everything (and I mean everything) go to a man none of them had seen for 15 years. So needless.

ifonly4 · 26/01/2017 14:31

Your Dad needs to get legal advice and make a Will, also ask about joint tenancies as above. Even if he's not up to finalising the divorce, a solicitor will make a note of the circumstances. Can he remember where the money came from that was given to your Mum. It might be worth getting in touch with the bank/building society/whoever and asking them if they have any records and can confirm this.

Ciutadella · 26/01/2017 14:32

I suppose as Dm has a new dp, df may be concerned that dm will leave her property to him. Or spend it, or leave it to a cat home - i think the truth is that if you want to be sure your dc will inherit something, you have to leave it to them, not to dspouse. Unless you set up a life interest trust which I gather (from mn!) is becoming more common.

Flip

1 2 3 4