AIBU To insist on a second child

[Yellowpear]

Dd is 6. I have wanted DC2 for four years now but DH has not been so keen. He says he hypothetically wouldn't mind but first he wanted to buy a house, then it was a career change, then our wedding. I had a long chat with him before the wedding explaining how important it was to me that we try for a baby this year (because he bloody said we should!). Dd is getting older and I don't want to wait any longer. He agreed but after the wedding changed his mind and said 'in the new year'. It's now the new year and he is avoiding me, coming to bed at a different time and our sex life has dwindled to almost nill. He initiated it this morning, lasted all of 15 seconds and then withdrew at the vital moment.
I feel cheated. If he had been honest and said no more DC four years ago I could have decided to live with it or left him. Before dd we had agreed on 2 children so none of this was a surprise to him. I think he's misled me and don't know what to say when we discuss this (fight) later. I want him to be honest with me but he keeps on saying we will try 'soon'
I feel used and irrationally humiliated about what happend this morning. AIBU to not have sex with him at all until he gives me an honest answer about ttc.

[BillSykesDog]

Okay OP, now you have clarified that it was very shortly beforehand I agree with you that YANBU to feel hurt and disappointed and also like he used you when he had sex.

Although he does still have a right to change his mind right up to the last moment. I think you need to pin him down over what happened and insist he tells you his real feelings rather than mucking you about.

[Marynary]

No,a selection of various choices is not an instruction

I didn't say you gave an instruction. I said you suggested it as an option.

[Marynary]

Although he does still have a right to change his mind right up to the last moment. I think you need to pin him down over what happened and insist he tells you his real feelings rather than mucking you about.

Nobody has said he doesn't have the right to change his mind. He has the right to do anything as long as it is not illegal. They are just saying that she has the right to change her mind about staying a relationship with him because of it.

[jacks11]

I think it would be unreasonable to INSIST on having another child. It would not be unreasonable to sit down with your DH and discuss it fully.

I understand you feel a bit deceived, but people are allowed to change their minds. For all we know your DH may have wanted another DC at the time they were married but has since changed his mind. He may not want another DC for a good reason- e.g. he is worried about finances or doesn't feel he could cope with the demands of another child. Of course, he should have been honest with OP when he became sure he didn't want another child (if indeed that is the case), whether that was before or after the wedding so that OP could decide where she stood.

Ultimately only you can decide what to do OP, but I think you need to consider a few things. Presumably you didn't marry your DH solely as a sperm donor- so is your relationship otherwise good? Do you love your DH? or do you love the idea of a second child more than you love him? What about the impact on your DD (not saying you should stay in an unhappy marriage "for the children")? Is it worth breaking up the family for a hypothetical child? Remember you are not guaranteed to meet someone else, let alone someone else who wants children, is it worth throwing away what you have for that hypothetical situation? Only you can answer those questions.

If the answer to those questions is that you don't love him or you don't have a good relationship (and don't want to work on it), then you should consider leaving. If you have an otherwise solid relationship and you love him then I would think carefully.

[Iggi999]

How long does he want to wait till he's "ready"? There would already be a 7 year gap between the siblings.

[BillSykesDog]

marynary, she does, but she also says she's not going to! Which TBH makes me think quite highly of the OP. I just find it amazing that a lot of MNetters find it perfectly acceptable to emotionally blackmail a partner and ignore the needs of existing children by threatening to leave if they don't get what they want. I'm absolutely certain that if a woman posted on relationships that her husband was doing this to pressure her into having another child he'd be ripped to shreds. It's almost like men are just viewed as some sort of adjunct to do as they're told and they themselves are not valued as people and certainly not loved or respected. Kudos to the OP for valuing her relationship and DH enough to try and work through it even if she is worried that it will have a negative effect on their relationship.

I'm in a similar situation myself as I would like to try for a fourth but DH is not keen. I don't know how it will pan out but I love him far too much to chuck him if he won't get on board. But some posters seem to assume that male partners are just tolerated while they are useful and aren't actually loved for themselves and are only valued when meekly going along with what the female partner wants. And if they don't they're totally disposable and can be cast aside without a thought because their only value lies in giving the woman what she wants.

Thank heavens the OP isn't that callous for her daughter's sake.

[EveOnline2016]

If the DH has changed him mind, then I suspect with time the OP could accept that there will be 1 child.

It's not fair that the DH is dangling it under op nose and it will never happen.

He needs to be honest.

I got to admit that I felt like going back on the coil when I really wanted another the most difficult thing ever, because even though i shouldn't have been responsible for preventing pregnancy, I wouldn't take the MAP if a condom split as it may be the chance I could pregnant but I really didn't want an unplanned pregnancy.

However at least DH was honest and I didn't have to jump through hoops.

DH did eventually want our second born and then had the snip.

[Iggi999]

What a load of balls Billsykes. You are projecting your own relationship into the OP's dh. He has been stringing her along for four years now, not saying no, and presenting mythical points in the future when he will in fact be ready. In what way is he valuing his wife by doing this?

[MarshaBrady]

A second isn't the same as a family that is already quite big. There can be a strong desire to experience children who are siblings. It would be foolish for someone who has 5 to throw it all in for the lack of a sixth.

[juneau]

WYBU to force him into having a 2nd DC? Yes, of course you would. And actually, as you've discovered, you can't do this, because he will simply avoid sex/ejaculation if he feels like this is happening. If you value your relationship and his contribution to your family then the only thing to do is have a brutally frank discussion. He has not been honest with you and that is not acceptable. He's strung you along for years and yes, you've been a passive participant in that. Four years of him messing you around, including getting married in that time and things have only come to a head now? I think you have to accept your part in this deception, because you have indeed played your part. Time for total honesty. Tell him you need to hear his REAL view on this - not what he thinks you want to hear. You both need to be 100% honest and then decide how to go forwards. Marriage counselling is probably a good idea, if you want to try and salvage this marriage. Threats, ultimatums and rows about it though will almost certainly end in separation.

[Beeblossombee]

I have always been a direct person and my own approach to this would be to first get an honest answer about whether he wants a second child or not - "Please just be honest, I'll respect your final decision. Do you want a second child?"

If th answer is no, then I would have an honest conversation with myself and figure out whether I need to make peace with myself that my child will be an only child or whether I need to make the decision to leave my husband for the chance of a second child.

For me, negotiations would not be an option after he said no, because I would respect his feelings and I would know any relenting on his part will only end up making things worse down the line. It doesn't mean you don't love him or respect your relationship so far, but some times there is no perfect answer.

If you stayed, it doesn't mean your only child will not have a fulfilled life and not prosper, if you go it doesn't mean that your husband was a bad husband or father, just that you grew apart and wanted different things. He will always be father to your eldest child.

[Olympiathequeen]

Do you work? Is he worried more about the financial side? Maybe he is just very happy with how things are at the moment?

You've just got to push this conversation, maybe at the weekend with a bottle of wine to relax him and allow him to be open and honest with you.

[Pandora88]

Bill...

I agree with one previous commentator - you are projecting your relationship drama on OP, where your situation is very different. First of all your DH openly says he doesn't feel like having another one, rather than deceiving you and secondly you already have three children...

That's a bit different than have your DC be an only child due to a husband's whim. Perhaps that would seem unimportant to many people but to me a child should have a brother or sister.

[Marynary]

marynary, she does, but she also says she's not going to!

If she doesn't intend to leave him because of this then I'm not sure how she can "insist". That is why I don't get the logic of all the posters who say it is wrong to "insist" but okay to consider leaving because of this issue. To me they are contradicting themselves. Unless they feel there is some other way of "insisting". What is exactly is it you think she shouldn't do

[BillSykesDog]

'Valuing' a partner doesn't mean going along with what they want for very important decisions when you have doubts.

Yes, he should have been more honest with her about his feelings. But part of the problem is an insistence on arbitrary deadlines when he can't possibly know if he will feel ready by then. He should have said something along the lines of 'I'm not ruling it out but I don't feel ready and I don't know
when I will.' But if he eventually decides that time is never going to arrive he has every right not to do so.

And, yes, there is generally a hugely poor attitude to men's right to have a say in their own reproduction on MN. A lot of MNetters seem to view men's fertility as something there for their convenience. Father's who don't fulfill their lifelong responsibilities to their children are slated and are told they should have used contraception. But if they do use contraception they're a bastard for not giving their partner what they want.

There was actually a thread on here recently where posters were insisting that men should donate their sperm to sperm banks and women should just be able to go along and be inseminated on the NHS when they wanted a baby, turning conception into a state controlled activity. Any discussion of why any man would hand over his sperm to be used like this would apparently be solved by requiring/coercing them to do it. But in the same breath the same posters were outraged at the idea that women could be required to carry babies for gay men who wanted children.

Yes he's communicated badly and probably hasn't told the OP his true feelings. But at the same time he has every right to change his mind at any time right up to the final moment. Men have just as much right to make decisions about their fertility as women do.

[MarshaBrady]

No one should be held to anything, no one can insist to the other, either person can change their mind.

A conversation is needed, and marriage counselling may help resolve it or it may not and the op will need to decide what to do based on this. No one is the bad person here whatever they decide together.

[Oly5]

I think I would have left my DH if he hadn't wanted a second child. It was that fundamental to me.
He has been lying to you OP for four years like you said... He doesn't have to have a second child but he does have to be honest.
Not sure i would want to stay

[Pandora88]

Bill...

I don't think OP insisted on deadlines - deadlines are just something that her DH imposed on her, "yes honey I do want children, BUT after our wedding / career change / whatever..." whereas the fair thing to say would have been to say "I feel like I want children at some point but not sure exactly when and don't want to specify this rights now."