To expect DD's BF's parents not to shout when DD is with them

[RitaSnorer]

Episode 1: DD (age 8) has gone for a playdate which is extended into a sleepover so I go to drop some stuff off and when I get there she is crying and wants to come home. BFMum is a bit baffled and says DD and BF just had a bit of a tiff but I can hear BFDad shouting at BF whilst I am talking to BFMum. I leave with DD. BFDad starts shouting even louder once we have left, so loud that we can still hear him inside the car 20ft from the house. DD maintains that she just wanted to come home because she missed us.

Episode 2 (about a week later): DD gets dropped off after an outing with BF & parents. She comes in saying "that was a bit traumatic". BFDad had pulled over and parked blocking someone's drive in order to shout at BF, had called her a spoilt brat, said he was going to delete her favourite new app and had thrown/dropped her phone (though DD thinks this might have been accidental). BFMum had noticed DD's face and asked him to stop because he was frightening DD but he'd said he didn't care. DD referred to this incident for several days afterwards saying she was 'still thinking about it' or 'still traumatised'.

BFMum did not dispute DD's version of events and said she had taken issue with BFDad's shouting herself but said you were allowed to tell your own children off in front of other children. I said that it sounded more like verbal abuse than a telling off and I did not want BFDad to shout in front of my DD. BFDad said that DD is too sensitive and that he will tell his own child off whenever he wants to. Both maintain it was just a normal telling off. The implication is that we are overreacting and that by asking for assurances (that BFDad will not shout) that cannot be given, we are ending DD and BF's friendship.

Very grateful for opinions. Thank you

"Which to some, including myself, reads that the OP will be ending the friendship because the father won't guarantee to not shout at his daughter."

Then you are reading too much into it sailorcherries. Why do you think the OP started the thread?

A few people allowing their own experiences cloud what the OP is actually saying, which is clearly measured and thoughtful.

Agree with others that you should continue to welcome this little girl into your home, and I'd be having a word with the teacher too, so they know what is going on.

the parents have implicated you are ending the dcs friendship by you questioning the shouting. that must have been embarrassing and they would deny it. but follow through and ask their dd to your house for play, not sure about vice versa, perhaps they will tone it down now you have raised it?

the dad is a shouter, not nice

how many times does your dd go there?

mn concensus has a habit of over reacting.

BFDad starts shouting even louder once we have left, so loud that we can still hear him inside the car 20ft from the house

Christ that's awful. He must have been bellowing. Poor bloody kid.

I would just invite friend over to you instead. Dad sounds like a wanker. He probably rules the roost and mum has to put up with it. She is probably embarrassed and is therefore sticking to the line that your dd is too sensitive.

I guess it cant do any harm to raise it with school

I remember this happening to me when I was about 11 and at a friends house, we had been talking to some boys in the park and her dad saw and went mad at her. Literally shouting in her face. I was so shocked. I never went back to her house. We are still friends thought 23 years on and she no NEVER sees her Dad.

You have to think, is this going to get better? Why would you send your DD somewhere that she will get scared? The only solution is that she stops going there and if the friendship ends, then it does. It doesn't sound like an environment you want your DD in and that should take priority.

My DH shouted really loudly at my DS during a play date once. The friend did not want to come back after that I realised it was fair enough and that was the consquence of my DH's actions. The friendship didn't end although boys rely less on play dates for their friendships I think. The friend has now come round again but it is years later.

I don't think ending the friendship would be good - just invite the other child over to see you, but not let your dd go there. The friend could probably use with the support (and see how a normal family works), if she has a dad like that.

It's one thing to shout for a moment when your child behaves badly, even in front of another child. But having a child's parent come over, and keep shouting so loudly that people can hear you from outside the house? That's not normal.

I'm afraid your DD cannot be left in the company of this vile man. She can maintain this friendship but only away from him. That poor child

My ds had a good friend whose dm ranted and raved. My ds thought it was hilarious and came home relating all the stories. But l think her bark was worst than her bite and he was not remotely scared. But your dd is scared so must be listened to . Don't discuss it with other family as obviously not going to agree so just have friend at your house. Plan outings together. Or maybe let her over for an hour after school when cranky dad is at work. But no sleepovers.

Just quickly wanted to say that we absolutely do not want the friendship to end. Was trying not to let the OP get too long and it is clearly a bit ambiguous. BFDad said something along the lines of "so you're saying you're going to stop them being friends" when DP spoke to him about not shouting, so I suspect BF might be reciprocally banned from our house by him if DD is not allowed to go to theirs.

Thanks for all the replies. I will read them all and respond properly in a few hours as I have some free time at lunch.

Is there time after school that the dad won't be there? Does he work? Maybe you could fit the friendship round that... and have the wee girl round to yours at weekends ?

He's abusive and I would not have my child anywhere near him.

I would feel incredibly sorry for the child and the mother, but the mother chooses to remain with this person. SHE is calling the shots on this one.

She knows he's overdoing it. I'd have the child at yours and that would be it. Hell, invite the mother over. Sounds like she could do with a friendly ear and a large glass (read bucket) of wine.

He's was shouting and screaming at two 8 year olds over a child's petty argument. He needs a chill pill and quick.

YNBU

Agree with pp. Have the friend over but your child shouldn't be subjected to that.

I would also raise with the school that this little girl appears to be being verbally abused and that they may wish to look into this more or ask her how things are.

There is no law against shouting at your child - (and the example that was given from a pp about yelling at one of her kids who was mucking around with a balloon in the car while she was driving was different, it was potentially dangerous with the balloon) but to pull over and rant and rant and then to be continuing to shout and scream so it could be heard 20 foot away outside is sustained and unnecessary and abusive. The fact that he has been challenged on this (well done by the way) and still couldn't give a shiny shit, shows just what a bully he is.

Don't let your DD be subjected to this. But please think of the other girl and pass this on.

Don't allow your child to be subjected to that.

Keep friendship going with plenty of trips out and visits to your house, don't allow her to spend time with BF father.

Telling off your child in front of other people's children is absolutely fine, sometimes kids need telling off. This does not sound like standard telling off though, it sounds pretty horrific.

Personally, I would send a message to the mother (who appears to be the least aggressive of the pair), explaining that the level of aggression her husband has displayed to his own child means you are uncomfortable leaving your daughter in his care, stress that their daughter is a lovely child and is welcome around yours but you understand if they decide they don't want that to happen, and that you're happy to maintain the friendship between the girls by meeting up outside of each families space (park, cinema etc).

Then speak to the school. I do have to wonder if there are further issues if he believes that is an acceptable way to treat your children and respond to other parents concerns.

Many thanks for all these really helpful replies.

I have already spoken to school, so it is very reassuring that others think this was warranted.

BFDad is a colossal d**khead and I have no doubt at all that BFMum is in an abusive relationship but I left all that side of it out of the OP partly to keep it brief and partly because I was interested in getting opinions on this episode in isolation.

I never had any intention of ending the friendship (DD would be distraught!) but I note all your comments about its importance for BF too and will perhaps try harder to keep it going than I might otherwise have done.

The advice about neutral outings or dad-free playdates is great too. I don't think BFDad will stand for a lopsided playdates-at-ours-only arrangement but I think there might be a way forward if we do dad-free playdates at both addresses.

Thanks again and a special mention for Mombino, TheMysteriousJackelope, confuddledDOTcom, Cel982 and CauliflowerSqueeze whose posts say all the things DP and I have been saying to each other and so are particularly reassuring that we are not overprotective idiots.