Serious incidence at school. Help please

[piedpiper4]

DD (12) suffers from severe anxiety and this makes it very difficult for her to speak in class. Recently her anxiety has been getting worse and she has started self harming again. Something she stopped about a year ago. I have been talking to the school and they have put several things in place to support DD, including saying she doesn't have to speak in class if she is feeling overwhelmed. So far, so good.

Today DD had a lesson with a teacher she is afraid of. She has this teacher one lesson a week and literally shakes in her class. DD says shes a very angry teacher who shouts all the time.
It got to near the end of the lesson today and teacher asked DD to answer some questions. DD said no she didn't know, but the teacher kept pushing for an answer and started shouting at DD. At this point DD burst into tears.
There was a TA in the class, who wasn't actually working with the class, but who was sorting out some paperwork. She has worked with DD previously and realised what was happening. She removed DD from the class and took her to a safe place to calm down. As they left the classroom, the teacher apparently shouted after them that she wasn't asking anything hard, and that she only needed to say one sentence.
The TA was brilliant and really looked after DD.
Two lessons later, DD was sent to the nurse as she self harmed in class and was bleeding.
The teacher is very high in the school management, so for the TA to go against her must have taken a lot of courage.
My question to you is..how angry and upset would you be?
I have a meeting with the school on Monday and I want to make sure I respond appropriately. As a bit of background, until 2 years ago DD was a school refuser but has done so well to get here. I've just been through so much to get DD to this point that I sometimes feel I under estimate how good/bad situations are.
Thanks

I'd be very, very angry. 2 questions for the Head:

• Have they communicated their plan for helping your DD? If not, why not? If they have, what will they do about it being ignored?
• Even if this teacher approached the situation with no knowledge of your DDs situation, how on earth does a senior member of school staff think that this method of teaching is appropriate?

I'd be calmly asking for assurances that this won't happen again, and asking for the teacher to be moved to another class (I'm guessing that making your DD move might send her the wrong message).

Hope she's ok

How awful for you and your daughter. You both must be feeling wretched.
Lots of sensible advice from other posters and I agree with the icy calm approach but would take as much info to the meeting as possible. Has the ta told you exactly what happened or is this your daughter's account? Have you got in writing the previous agreement? Also I'd ask for a copy of the school's complaints policy if you can't download it from their website.

Altimate is spot on - decide what you want as outcomes. Good luck

I agree with others, write everything up, ask for the meeting to be minuted and be clear on the outcomes you expect to see.

Be calm and cold, no losing temper. I have found that many people don't really know how to deal with someone who has every right to be angry, but who is being all cold and formal. Take someone with you, if it helps.

I'd also take a notebook and make my own notes, so that I coiuld compare them to the minutes as I would definitely expect to be sent a copy.

Personally I would tackle it as an information dissemination issue: what procedures are in place in school to ensure all teachers of a particular child are aware of the issues a child has? How is this information communicated? How sure are you that the teacher was aware of her issues?

I did it once - asked a child to read out loud who we had been told not to ask to read out loud. To her credit, she tried and I realised as soon as she started that I shouldn't have asked her. She got to the end, I praised her enormously, gave her a handful of merits and bollocked the idiot who laughed. After class I kept her back and apologised. It was a lapse on my part, not deliberate and certainly not meant to upset her. But her parents would have been right to complain because the way this information is disseminated in school puts the onus on me to be aware. If the teacher wasn't aware, getting frustrated at a lack of co-operation isn't unusual, albeit it was dealt with badly.

I wouldn't go in yelling about the teacher. I would ask questions about how he might know about her issues. And take it from there.

Poor lass. I remember I was always a quiet, shy, 'sensitive' (as they always puton my reports) child. I remember in General Studies, it was decided that we all had to do a presentation in front of the class. I felt nauseous, I was so nervous, and barely slept for the week beforehand.

I started my presentation, and was doing OK until a couple of my mates started giggling. I completely lost my train of thought (we weren't allowed to use notes or read from a script), and my form teacher just kept badgering me, then started to take the piss. He told me that I was 'very disappointing'.

I ran out in tears, and cried until I was vomiting in the toilets. I can't even remember what happened after that - my music teacher, who was lovely, ended up looking after me and I ended up being sent home (as I was still being sick).

I was 16. I absolutely hate to think of that happening to a 12 year old, especially one with diagnosed anxiety and a history of self harm.

Go and wee in the vicious cow's shoes.

You are right to be furious. That teacher is crap at her job and is a bully.

Call the school prior to your meeting and make sure you know who you will be meeting with. Tell them what you are expecting to be discussed and ask what their objective is for the meeting. Tell them that one of your objectives is to have that teacher's behaviour addressed and a clear outcome on what will happen about your DDs classes in that subject. Print off a copy of the schools anti-bullying policy - if they have one it should be on their website, or ask for it- and take it with you to wave around. At the meeting ask pertinent questions about it like does it apply to teachers too? Take someone with you that is not a relative, introduce them as 'I've brought someone with me. this is Bod' without referring to role. You don't need to tell the school you're taking someone. They will take you seriously if they can see you mean business. All too often these people think they can do and say what they please but a witness can make them think long and hard before they make excuses or palm you off. After the meeting draft a letter saying what you understand to have been agreed and send it to them as a record and to make sure they do everything they said they would or can be held to it. Registered post, naturally.

Your daughter has done so well, and so have you to get this far. Don't let one miserable teacher spoil things for you.

I would go one step further than having the meeting and also get it recorded. If they don't want to then ask what it is that they are trying to hide, point out that both sides can record (there are some good apps you can use on your phone) and that it will help to make it easier to minute the meeting from a recording.

I would also get it noted officially that if this teacher pulls this sort of stunt again and does anything to cause your dd to self harm then you will be reporting her to the police for causing harm to your dd. Not sure what the actual charge would be but hopefully that would be enough to demonstrate how serious her actions and the resulting consequences are. And hopefully that will also hammer home to the teacher how serious this is.

Poor child. I am a teacher and I wd like to think I wd have acted with more professionalism.

I wd say when you meet with the sch, keep very calm (not angry, not emotional) and stick to the facts of what happened - maybe write them down to take along. Make sure you don't have to add or retract things at a later date. It will be useful to decide in advance what you want to get out of the meeting. Is it an apology? Is it for yr DC to not have this teacher again? Is it for the sch staff to improve their understanding of students with similar issues? Good luck. And pls remember, almost all teachers go into teaching because they want to help students to learn. This teacher too! She just might have made a mistake in this incident.

Didn't mean to sound bossy. My son is epileptic and we had a similar scenario. What I wrote was the advice a friend gave me, along with a go get em pep talk, and it really helped me. Hope it helps you too.

I second what MuchAdo said about taking someone in with you.
Also, be prepared for the fact that the HT may call in the teacher involved. If they do, then don't hesitate to tell the HT that the teacher's presence would be inappropriate and that you don't want to discuss the matter with them in the room since it concerns their behaviour.

I would be blazing. As an adult sufferer of Generalised Anxiety Disorder which began developing in my childhood, I am almost certain that if the adults around me had taken me even remotely seriously instead of just yelling at me for not pulling myself together that I might not have got as bad as I did and as I am sometimes.

It lifts my heart up to know how your DD must know that her mum and good people like the TA are listening to her and taking her seriously.

That is disgusting. The wicked bullying cunt. She fuckin knew what she was doing. And Don't let them blind with you science or that old well its to help build her up chestnut!!!!. I'd be apoplectic.
Your poor dd.

The teaching assistant sounds lovely though.

Go fucking mental about it tonight, but before you go into the meeting you should spend some time arming yourself with facts - about a school having a "duty of care" and a responsibility to make "reasonable adjustments" for children with disabilities (based on how long this has been going on, you should easily get a diagnosis of a MH disability). Look through their documents about child safeguarding etc on their own website. Nailing that bastard teacher with evidence will work much better than emotion alone.

Very best of luck

For me, it would depend on how much the teacher knew about your daughter.

"flipping lids" and "going nuclear" (whatever that means), whilst often prescribed on MN, are never a good idea. It will harm your daughter's education.

Do you have any information besides your daughters? There are usually 2 sides to every story. Especially when one of them comes from someone who shakes because of the teacher they are with. This doesn't mean her's isn't true, but the more you know, the better armed you'll be for a meeting (not a war / arguement).

Have you asked the TA?

Ask your daughter to write down what happened. I'm sure she won't but the last thing you want is her being asked in to explain it to other adults.

Ask yourself, what do you want the outcome of the meeting to be as opposed nucleating yourself in a meeting and not getting anywhere.

When I read these threads, it often seems to be on a Monday. I think this is great as it gives you time to have a much more objective approach after the weekend.

The head (or whoever you're meeting with) has done nothing wrong. I wouldn't go into the meeting angry. I'd go in cooly and calmly, wanting appropriate results, whatever that might mean to you.

I could just have written, "what MollyHuaCha said...

Ok, I'd ask the ta or at least get the teachers view first on what actually happened.

Of course if she was shouting and is an angry teacher it needs to be dealt with, but you also have to be sure uour daughters perception was in no way skewed.

I'd not go in there all guns blazing, I'd go in there and I'd try to talk it through calmly to try to ensure it's managed in the future.

ailPartout going nuclear as in the nuclear option.
Go in with all the facts and not be fobbed off. There are times that a softly softly approach is justified ( most times in fact) but this is not one of them.
GAD is unbelievably horrible, more so in an adolescent and an incident like this can undo months of progress. ( personal experience)

I have a child with SN and am chair of governors at a school. You have every right to be livid!!!

I'm not one for advising running to the chair of governors / making official complaints but in this situation that is exactly what you need to do.
Have everything in writing and follow the complaints procedure, make it official so that it has to be fully investigated.

Good luck!

I would be livid. I would also want to find the TA and tell her she's amazing.

Despite your anger you will get better results if you go in calm but determined. That way they can't paint you as an irrational
Parent who knows nothing/is overreacting.

Have a written log of what happened with you. If the TA took her out she clearly felt it was bullying as well as that will have been a big risk for her. Make sure you have her back and mention how impressed you are that she stepped in. She is a witness whose actions show her to be on your child's side. That's a very strong position to be in.

A child self harming IN school is a very serious safeguarding incident. If it can be traced directly to the inappropriate actions of a teacher then it's even more so.

Be calm but firm and take this as far as you need to for them to sort it out and protect your daughter. Good luck.

Thattimeofyearagain

There are times that a softly softly approach is justified ( most times in fact) but this is not one of them.

Ah. Well, that's where you're wrong.

If the TA took her out she clearly felt it was bullying as well

No

as that will have been a big risk for her.

Risk of what?

It will have been a great thing for theTA to do, whether it was the teachers 'fault' or not.

Cold and formal and throw in a big word here and there is the way to go. Remember they expect you to walk in their ignorant to justify their thoughts about you. A teacher will never blame themselves for how your daughter behaves. Your hustling to keep your child through education a teacher is hustling to keep their job. Keep that in mind when you go to the meeting and sound intelligent because they expect vulnerability and ignorance. I hope this makes sense to you and walk in their strong.

I'd involve the LEA and Otsted too.

ali we will have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Op how is your DD today ?

Thanks for your replies. I really appreciate you all taking the time. Just to answer some questions.
I do believe DDs version of events simply because her issues mean that in a situation like this she would be unable to lie. I also asked her to bulletin point everything for me last night.
Dd seems to be doing well, at least the logical side is. The anxiety ridden, illogical side is the bit I'm worried about. Unfortunately she wet the bed last night, and the first thing she asked me about this morning was what the teachers title in school means.
For pp to ask me what I want. The answer is I don't know. I've been to enough of these meetings to be cool, calm and collected and to not show my hand too early. I just feel that what this teacher has done is unjustifiable towards any child. To make any child cry in a lesson is a terrible thing to do for a multitude of reasons. To do it to a extremely vulnerable child with potentially disastrous consequences?
On a lighter note I'm sorry the title says incidence and not incident. Makes me wince each time I look at it. Please put it down to being a tad upset yesterday!

Do you have time to homeschool her?

I remember my youngest daughter wetting herself in school nursery and reception. The huffy puffy bitch from Senco judged me the whole time and they weren't helping her. She was doing it at school my older 2 weren't like that. She was also wetting the bed at night. They were also starting on my second child they found her strange. I took her to kumons and they said she was progressing and doing well. When the work was shown to the teacher she said she can't do that. It's her handwriting. My 1st daughter did not want to go into the school she hated it. She weren't progressing so in the end I removed all 3 of them. I want my children to be happy, healthy and educated children and it's the best decision I ever made. My partner said to me that I would be left with the illness and he didn't want that.

It is up to you what you do but is it worth the trauma for you and your daughter. Secondary school is a trauma for most children. College and university is much more grown up and teachers don't intimidate they teach.