Good sleepers are less intelligent kids???

[SparklyFuckingBusinessFairy]

Chatting with a colleague yesterday about our babies (16 months old), and she was moaning that her DS never sleeps. DD is a pretty good sleeper these days, usually sleeps for 10-12 hours. Then she said smugly, "of course, they say poor sleepers are much more intelligent," at which I was a bit . Even if you think that, even if it's scientifically true, you don't say it in those circumstances.

However, it is certainly true that her DS is very advanced; he walked at 10 months and says loads of words, whilst DD is bang on average so far and just has a few words that all sound the same (cheese, sneeze etc).

What are your experiences - are good sleepers and easy going kids generally less smart? Or can I tell her to get stuffed with her smugness?! And was she as rude as I thought she was, or was I being hypersensitive and perceiving criticism where there was none?

[unlucky83]

sparkling I'm sure you weren't boasting....but someone who is barely functioning and desperate might well think you were... not rational but then that is what sleep deprivation does for you ...it is like being in another reality ...
(I remember someone said something harmless to me - talking about their normally good sleeper having a bad night ....all I really heard and focused on was how much they normally slept - I didn't say anything but in my head I was screaming 'fuck off bragging' ..and yy to people telling you they are bright etc - is is just to try and make the torture feel slightly more bearable...)

[MrsWhiteWash]

as there were loads of studies in the papers saying that babies born at 37-38 weeks have smaller brains and lower IQs than babies born at 39-42 weeks, so I guess I worry that if she does struggle at school it will be my fault!

I'm surprised at that - anecdotally in my family there have been some very early for the time births and yet as adults they have degrees and post graduate qualifications.

My children were pretty advanced toddlers but older two have really struggled at times with school - we helped then at home and they are all doing well now.

[BillyButtfuck]

I've always slept like a log for a solid 12 hours minimum and apparently always did so as a baby/child and I have a masters degree

[AuntieStella]

Sleep deprivation is a form of torture, it's awful and debilitating. And you'll grab and hold anything that is a chink of light at the end of the tunnel.

And yes you have more foot-in-mouth moments when you are chronically tired. You don't monitor your tone of voice so well, so what would clearly have been an ironic joke is delivered flat and comes across as rudeness.

Give her a break. This really is a case of think about what it's like to be her in those circumstances before coming to conclusions about what she said.

My guess it that it was a throwaway comment intended to be joking, from someone who is really suffering with tiredness, so not quite - currently - as socially skilled as (not sleep-deprived) OP.

[Northend77]

I have 2 year old twins. One has always slept better than the other and she is definitely the more average child although she has a much better attention span. Her sister (who still has bad nights and always wakes before 6am) was first with all her milestones. She is a much more determined child however and I think this is more the reason that she reaches milestones quicker. I don't believe any of these myths and especially at such an early age - its' really hard to tell.

I would also say that my husband was apparently a very good sleeper and I was horrendous (worse than my own bad sleeper apparently!) and there's not much difference between us, in fact I would say that he's the more "intelligent" of us both

[Stonewash]

LOL, in her desperate, sleep deprived state she was probably just trying to offer herself some tongue in cheek compensation, rather than meaning to be derogatory to you.

^ This. It doesn't mean she actually believes it.

[littlepeas]

This thread will just fill up with loads of anecdotal evidence, but hey ho, here's my bit! Ds1 slept very well as a baby, had delayed speech but everything else normal - he's now 8 and flying academically, but is a total night owl with a very active mind and struggles to actually get to sleep (but once he is asleep, he doesn't wake). So I do see a connection with a busy mind and struggling with sleep there, but in an older child. My dd and ds2 both sleep well and are average/slightly above average academically, but are much sportier and more physically active than ds1. So from my study of 3, physical activity makes you tired and its hard to switch your brain off if its always buzzing with thoughts and questions!

[juneau]

I think I'd have replied 'Oh, you must've been a great sleeper then'

[beargrass]

Splendid. I might have been barely functioning for the past 5 years, but at least my child must be a fucking genius.
brilliant

OP: Sounds like smug BS some people trot out to make themselves feel better

[deadringer]

Rubbish! My two best sleepers are far and away the brightest of my five kids.

[ifonly4]

Mine is now 15 and as a baby hardly sleep. She's spend a lot of the night shuffling around in her bed and would have us up 3/4 times for the first year. She dropped sleeps at 18 months and was still waking us up in the night until around age four.

She was an early good talker but took her first step at 13 months. Moving on she's doing 11 GCSEs, just got 2A*s, 1A, 1 8 (new grade), 2 7s, four Bs and one C. Some of the grades don't take into account coursework which would bring the grade up if it was the real thing. Some might think she's bright, others that's she done fairly well - depends on opinion really. Physically she enjoys sport, wants to do well and be fit, but isn't a natural at it - and looking back she was a mid/later walker to my mind.

[user1484317265]

She's full of shit. Tell her to have 5 decent studies on your desk.

[Gah81]

What a rude woman!

Tiny sample size obvs but if it helps, my younger bro and I both slept like ANYTHING as children and took a while to say our first words/walk etc.

He ended up getting a first in maths from Oxford and I got a first in English from Cambridge. Throughout school, we also tended to be top of our respective classes in every subject (sorry, that probably comes across as smug. It's genuinely supposed to be comforting!)

Pretty sure that was the peak of my intellectual capabilities/achievements though as I sometimes struggle to remember which day it is/how old I am/the year... so perhaps that's not so comforting after all

[AnnaT45]

It's one of those things like 'it's good luck to rain on your wedding day' it's there to make you feel like the horrendous nature of sleep deprivation is worthwhile ... I would just try be sympathetic rather than offended, hard as it is!

My just two year old is and has always been an awful sleeper. I don't know about intelligence as she's two but she's incredibly active! She eats very little too so I'm not sure where the energy comes from. Some people just don't need sleep. I blame my mum's genes she slept four / five hours a night and didn't stop all day!

[myfavouritecolourispurple]

What I do think about sleeping is that people who don't need much sleep can achieve more in their lives. I need LOTS of sleep. I would never take a job that required me to work until midnight and be in the office at 6am the following morning - however much it paid. I like my bed!

And I'm not going to be one of those people who works late into the night studying etc. So I think there's a grain of truth in that if you need less sleep, you have more time.

the assumption that children that were advanced as babies and will continue to be advanced as young people/adults is also untrue

I had a friend who said that you could tell at a year old who the high achievers of the future would be...

[LumelaMme]

My worst sleeper has absolutely no common sense, couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.
My best sleeper, who conked out at night as if she'd been unplugged, is Little Ms Practicality and has more common sense than all her siblings (and probably her parents) added together.

Make of that what you will.

[mikeyssister]

We've one who apparently measures academically as a genius who always slept extremely well, but socially totally inept.

I suppose it also depends how you define intelligence. I certainly couldn't trust DD to go shopping to get more than 5 items. She'd forget something and decide to get a totally random item instead - she counts the number of items she's to get instead of memorising a list.

[user789653241]

It does make sense that if the child has less sleep, they can get more advanced.
2 hours x 7 days = 14 hours. 14 hours x 4 weeks = 56 hours.
They have more than 1 extra day in a month. 56h x 12m = 672
672/24h = 28days
So, if your child sleeps 2 hours less than normal child everyday, they have nearly month extra waking hours each year.

But tbh, I've read on MN plenty of gifted children sleep long hours!

[Bear2014]

If this is true then I'll be able to retire early and live off my highly successful and wealthy daughter, who has barely slept through the night in 2 years.

[Bear2014]

*3 years!

[namechangedtoday15]

Depends what they're doing in their waking hours though doesn't it Irvine for that to make any sense?! If they're stood at the side of their cot crying or waking often in the night, can't see that makes any difference whatsoever!

[user1484317265]

It does make sense that if the child has less sleep, they can get more advanced

How does that make sense? Cos they can sit in their cots and do a bit of advanced trigonometry at 4 am?

[QuackDuckQuack]

Some people do spout a load of bollocks. I've been told that my DD is tall because she gets lots of sleep and short children are caused by sleep deprivation. DH is tall. That's why DD is tall. It has nothing to do with sleep.

[Bibblewanda]

She was just jealous.

[FizzBombBathTime]

Mine are set to be a pair of dumb arses then eh

What a crock of shite.