Good sleepers are less intelligent kids???

[SparklyFuckingBusinessFairy]

Chatting with a colleague yesterday about our babies (16 months old), and she was moaning that her DS never sleeps. DD is a pretty good sleeper these days, usually sleeps for 10-12 hours. Then she said smugly, "of course, they say poor sleepers are much more intelligent," at which I was a bit . Even if you think that, even if it's scientifically true, you don't say it in those circumstances.

However, it is certainly true that her DS is very advanced; he walked at 10 months and says loads of words, whilst DD is bang on average so far and just has a few words that all sound the same (cheese, sneeze etc).

What are your experiences - are good sleepers and easy going kids generally less smart? Or can I tell her to get stuffed with her smugness?! And was she as rude as I thought she was, or was I being hypersensitive and perceiving criticism where there was none?

[Heirhelp]

Blunt that is a smug post, sleeping through at 11 weeks. Please tell me the secret.

OP I don't think your colleague intended to be rude at all and she might have even felt that you were boasting about sleep. Cut let some lack and just be thankful that you are getting lots of sleep.

[MrsJayy]

I think Badgers might have a point maybe your friend is a bit sick of you being all refreshed with ALL the sleeping you do this woman is probably on her knees give her a bit of sympathy.

[Heirhelp]

*her not let.

[SparklyFuckingBusinessFairy]

Ah thanks everyone, I feel better now. She doesn't do many of the night time wakings as her husband is a SAHD (as is mine), and she's generally a pretty nice person, so taking a more balanced view, perhaps she was just being proud of her son, rather than putting down me and DD.

I guess it also tapped into something that I wasn't really aware bothered me until then - I was always v academic, so it's ingrained in me that good grades are good. I need to understand that there are lots of other ways of doing well in life, and being nice and happy are much more important. If she isn't bright, it's not the be-all and end-all.

Also, I feel guilty as I had GD and so she was born by ECS at 37 weeks, just as there were loads of studies in the papers saying that babies born at 37-38 weeks have smaller brains and lower IQs than babies born at 39-42 weeks, so I guess I worry that if she does struggle at school it will be my fault!

I will just sympathise with my colleague the next time she raises it :)

[megletthesecond]

Not true. I have two bright kids. One sleeps for England. The other doesn't .

[Somedays]

She's so tired she doesn't realise it's rude, probably. It's the sort of thing we parents of non-sleepers say to each other to console ourselves when we feel like the walking dead, but don't usually say to the parents of good sleepers. It's bullshit, mind you!

[TheClaws]

Well, I have two that are very bright teenagers - both were bloody bad sleepers when they were infants, but are great sleepers now, FWIW

[SparklyFuckingBusinessFairy]

I should also add that I wasn't boasting about DD's sleep - she asked and I said, "she usually sleeps through most nights." We've just come back from holiday, so the conversation started about babies coping with the time difference!

[KayTee87]

Yeah it's just something people say to make themselves feel better about the lack of sleep. Also maybe she thought you were boasting about your dc sleeping well.

My 2 yo nephew is an awful sleeper and I told my db & SIL it's a sign of intelligence in an effort to make them feel better. (He is a pretty bright 2yo to be fair)

[MatildaTheCat]

Her child is advanced for 16 months but this means nothing much in the long run. I had an almost identical friend situation ( although she didn't imply my ds was a duffer). Her dd never slept, mine slept six hours a night from 5 weeks and soon did 12. He had little speech until 2.5.

Fast forward to age 27 and frankly they are both pretty fucking awesomely smart. Her dd is a doctor, my ds an analyst.

I just got more sleep along the way.

[KayTee87]

Cross post op.

[PebbleInTheMoonlight]

Admittedly I only have a small pool of children compared with an official study but I've noticed no correlation between sleep and intelligence.

To go further, in my experience being early with first milestones makes absolutely no difference to academic ability.

Your friend is covering her own insecurity about a terrible sleeper by trying to make you doubt the security of having a good sleeper.

Not a nice thing to do, but some parents only have this as a coping mechanism for their fears. Most grow out of it as they see their child flourish in all sorts of different ways to the 'norm', but sadly you can still spot some of them bragging/simultaneously belittling others at the school gates whilst you do your best not to pull a WTF face.

[EineKleine]

She's just repeating something said to console parents of poor sleepers. My HV said it to me, when I was wondering what on earth to do with a newborn who was awake for 12 hour stretches - oh she's so interested in everything, taking it all in, these children often turn out really bright.

Actually I can buy that there may be a personality type that is linked to not switching off as a baby and being very engaged and a bit precocious as a child. However suggesting that good sleep = less intelligent person is like saying "elephants are grey, that wall is grey, therefore that wall is an elephant." Most shit sleepers are just shit sleepers.

And BigBadgers has a good point.

[SparklyTwinkleGlitter]

My DS always slept solidly and was the first to walk/crawl in our little baby group but I was a SAHM and 3 of my friends (who worked) had babies that woke a lot during the night. I could see they were knackered and I used to feel a bit guilty.

Are you sure you didn't come across to her as the smug mum, telling a sleep deprived work colleague that your baby sleeps for 10-12 hours? I'm sure it wasn't your intention but sleep deprivation is torture.

Whatever she says to you won't actually affect your child at all, so offering supportive comments would be the kind thing to do in this instance.

[MrsJayy]

You need to take a breath op your baby is just that a baby I have had to pre term babies 1 at 36 weeks other at 35 I think they did fine at school there is more to life than worrying about this enjoy your baby now

[EineKleine]

TheClaws actually that does help!

[SparklyFuckingBusinessFairy]

Ha, maybe I should express my sympathy for her husband!? She even makes the poor sod do most of the weekend wake-ups. DP and I split it much more evenly than that, although he does still do the bulk of any 5-6am starts.

[SantasLittleMonkeyButler]

Same as meglet.

I have two intelligent DSs - DS1 was a dreadful sleeper, DS2 slept for England right from the start.

DD is also a good sleeper, but is only 5 so I'll hold off on declaring her an intellectual genius just yet!

[MrsJayy]

We know you were not boasting about your Dd sleeping but maybe friend took it like that.

[corythatwas]

This seems to me a conversation that wasn't about you at all: she is the one with the sleep deprived family, she is the one that needs to clutch at straws to console herself, she is the one who will be worrying that something is wrong.

You do sound very anxious though- 37 weeks is within the range of normal gestation and the world is full of children born at 37 weeks: it isn't really normal to worry about the effect on brain size. Are there other underlying anxieties here? Do you reckon you are still a bit traumatised by that birth?

As your dd proceeds through the education system, she will meet children who are more gifted than her and children who are less gifted than her: it's something she'll have to learn to deal with.

[MrsWhiteWash]

Quick google search seem to suggest there might be something to it -


I though this was a balance take on it.
www.raisinglifelonglearners.com/gifted-children-need-less-sleep/

And, when I sifted through recent research while I prepped for my recent webinar on managing intense kids, I found references to findings that suggest gifted and intense kids might actually need more sleep than their peers, but have more trouble shutting it down. This makes them appear to need less, but their bodies are actually craving way more sleep than they’re getting.

So perhaps not as clear cut as all that.

In this case she's probably on her knees with tiredness and trying to feel better about it.

[MLGs]

she even makes the poor sod do most of the weekend wake ups

Like most of the sahms on here seem to have to!

[DoomGloomAndKaboom]

I do feel for her, having a bad sleeper, but my first thought on this thread was if better sleepers are less intelligent, your colleague is getting about 15 hours a night.......

But yes, I too think she's making herself feel better about the bad sleeping and - and this is NOT your fault/issue/problem, and I can see you weren't boasting - in the midst of dealing with a non sleeping baby, even the gentlest 'hmm, mine sleeps OK' can hit a nerve. You've not said the wrong thing, but parents of non sleepers of course are going to be very sensitive about babies who do sleep well (who, btw, are a rarity ime)

The super-bright child I know conks out by 7pm and has to be woken for school, and will sleep in till 9 or 10 at the weekend. He's perfectly healthy, just needs a lot of sleep. He's 9.

[OhhBetty]

Maybe she just doesn't like you very much or something? As you seem quite judgemental of her situation and her "making" her "poor dh" do most of the wake ups. I've never heard that said about a sahm. Maybe she thinks you're sexist?

[GreatDaneBowers]

Firstly, I'm more than sure it wasn't a judgement on you or your DD. And I'll tell you how I know..

Both my DSs (3 and 1) rarely sleep more than four hours straight. They seem like geniuses to me, but that's mainly because (thanks to years of sleep deprivation), I can just about string a sentence together, have abandoned lace-up shoes for being too complicated and have been known to accidentally let an insensitive comment like that slip through my barely perceptible brain-to-mouth barrier.