to be angry with DH

[yellowDahlia]

For background: DD1 (10) has had some difficulties at school drop-off since about the middle of last term - she won't walk over and line up with the class, always hangs back with me in the playground and has to be passed on to a teacher who walks her in. This compromise was reached after several incidents of her being really upset and almost hysterical (me too in many cases!) about leaving me and going into school. It's worth saying that when she's in, she's fine, and is fairly stable in all other aspects of life, bar the odd hormonal outburst.

However I discussed with DH last night the possibility of working on this with her again, as we've accepted this as the new 'normal' but really I want her to be able to line up and walk into school with her friends, as she has done for the previous five years of school so far. I suggested offering what would be basically a massive bribe - we will buy her a fitbit/ipad/gadget she wants IF she will work with us to overcome this.

This conversation was somewhat brief and not concluded (or so I thought) - fast forward to this morning when I go upstairs to find DD1 crying as her dad had told her that she wasn't getting to practice cello with her best friend after school (which he'd previously agreed to arrange), unless she does better at walking into school this morning.

I'm not often angry at DH but I was raging - this is the complete opposite of what I thought we'd agreed last night, and he hadn't even told me he'd said it to her - he was on his way out when I discovered this conversation had been held, leaving me to talk down a distressed DD1 and then try to get her successfully into school. I can't believe he doesn't understand the pressure that sort of request puts on her - effectively punishing her for not doing something she finds extremely difficult at the moment, and tying it in with her and her friend's performance with their musical instrument. I find this even more baffling because he's a music teacher!!

AIBU to be so mad? I know he was trying to help - he'd clearly registered from last night's (half-baked) conversation that there was a problem and so decided to try and fix it. But this was NOT what we agreed. I really wanted to do this in a positive way, take time to discuss with with DD1 and use a simple incentive, not issue random punishments an hour before school connected to her friends and her music, which is detrimental to both of them and we now have to enforce because, clearly, I had to walk her into school today as per usual!

My DD suffered anxiety in a couple of specific situations when she was a similar age. No SEN and otherwise bright, happy and outgoing.

I actually worked through an anxiety programme with her - via an anxiety clinic we were referred to by the GP. It was a mixture of tough love and proportionate reward. She had to go one step towards improving / changing her reaction / behaviour each week. She also had to talk about what made her anxious - so not just "crying" but why she was crying.

It was hard, but it worked and was worth it. She's 15 now and remembers it but has no hang-ups about the original fears or how we addressed them

I'm with Susan. My parents had problems like this with my brother at the start of secondary. Turned out he was being bullied by a teacher. He moved schools and was fine.

I'd personally give her some real quality 1 on 1 time at the weekend and try to see if there is anything else going on.

Susan that was my first thought. Is it possible that she's being bullied?

Agree you need to get to grips with her anxiety. She might not know why she's feeling anxious but you can get help with this. overtired's experience of an anxiety clinic referred by gp would be ideal.

There's no SEN.

It sounds like I'm just blithely buying ipads left and right and throwing money at the problem, but that's not the case (FWIW neither DDs even have their own tablet or computer of any kind. Or a fitbit for that matter and I'm not even sure that's a great idea tbh!) I was more intending it as a Really Big Incentive - a shiny thing that she's never had that she would work hard to achieve. But I do see the difficulty of setting that as a precedent - I do ideally want her to find a resolution for this on her own. I keep telling her SHE has the power to fix this, in fact she's the only one who can. I can't make her feel better about going into school, she has to find her own way to cope. She's just not really trying to do this and now we're in limbo.

Handing her over to the teacher works though, so maybe we should just stick with it. I'm just worried that that's not really helping her for the long term and maybe I'm just being lazy - maybe we both are - because we don't have to deal with the problem?

Before learnt to drive ex would do the school run and drive DD in, he was always late, she would just make it as the kids were in the line, she started getting anxious about it, she was always the last one there and wanted to go earlier. Now i do the school run she is dropped off in the street outside the school 10 mins before the bell so she can go in the yard and have a bit play. I think she felt everyone was there earlier, had already been playing and she felt like she was intruding and people were looking at her running to make the line. She is fine now and goes in no problem, maybe try dropping her at the gate a bit earlier without going in with her and see how that goes.

Not sure why people are assuming no SN, she clearly does have anxiety, and punishing her for it would clearly be counterproductive. It seems particularly bizarre to punish her by preventing her practising a musical instrument - I would have thought practice is something your husband would want to encourage.

However, I think it would be worth being firm about taking up the suggestion of going in early. It would take away the stress of feeling she's being watched by the other pupils and give her time to calm down. If she doesn't want to do it, you could tell her that she needs to think of a way to go in normally because this can't go on for ever.

I would also suggest a discussion with her school and doctor to see if she could be referred to a therapist or counsellor who can help her develop techniques to calm herself down. The school itself may have access to someone who does emotional literacy training who could help.

I'm pretty confident she's not being bullied or struggling with anything in particular at school. It's a small-ish school and the teacher she had (until she went on maternity last week!) I would trust to notice/flag any concerns.

I'm very reluctant to go to a GP - I think that would turn this into an even bigger Serious Thing and cause her more anxiety. Although it's interesting to know Overtired that it's not left your DD with any lingering issues.

several incidents of her being really upset and almost hysterical (me too in many cases!)

Not sure if this has already been said, but the above is a very likely cause of the hysterics. If she's getting upset, and you're getting hysterical too, she's just going to be more so; partly because you are "proving" that this is a big deal, and partly because she's getting a reaction.

I agree with PP who say do not bribe her.
Unless there's an underlying issue (which if she's had no problem for 5 years and there hasn't been a significant life change, its unlikely to be) then she is testing her boundaries - her reward? Attention from her parents and the teachers, plus an iPad by the sounds of it!

Its developed into a really bad habit and you are doing her no favours by indulging her. The fact that she is getting all this attention from you, her school and her friends is probably making her do it more.

You need to walk away and take a zero tolerance approach. Literally. Walk. Away. Even if she is hanging on to you, just go. She will make a complete scene but I bet that this will happen just a couple of times, she will soon realise that she is humiliating herself and will stop.

I am basing this approach on what your posts say, which seem to point to no SEN, no major anxiety, bullying issues and maybe just an overall desire for attention and control. That is completely normal with all kids, in various different ways but we need to manage it as their parents

yellowDahlia It's deeply unfair to your other DD if DD1 is getting a reward for doing something that they just do every day.

I think bribing with an expensive present is not the way forward. There is some better advice above.

I can understand why you felt annoyed that your DH said something to your DD that was way off what you agreed. My DH does that a lot and it makes me angry. You both need to be on the same page. I get the impression that my DH just nods in agreement when I think we are having a discussion about 'what to do' because he does not want to articulate that he does not agree with me. This is not because I am an ogre (I am open to discussion and compromise), but because it's in his make-up from childhood - had to nod and agree with his mother always. It leads to arguments.

If he does this a lot, he needs to acknowledge this pattern of behaviour and try to stop it. Either way, explain the importance of discussion, agreement and a united approach - for the sake of your reationship.

I had this with dd for the first two years of school. She wouldn't line up without holding my hand until toward the end of the autumn term in yr3 when she suddenly started going into school by herself. It corresponded to the time when we got a puppy and it was difficult for me to leave him as he screams the place down if I leave him tied up or with a friend. So it was quite a relief.

I talked to dd lots about it. In yr1 she had a reward chart at school. She got one sticker for getting dressed nicely at home and one sticker for going in nicely. If she was successful all week, she got a personalised sticker with her name on it, which the teacher organised for her.

I know my dd was 5/6 at the time. However, I wouldn't be totally dismissive of rewards but do agree the iPad is too unattainable right now and if you do start any kind of reward, it should be quite small such as going to the shops to pick up a small treat (e.g. Nail varnish). I would tell her you are there and if there is something bothering her, she can tell you. You will not be cross and will help her through it. I'd also perhaps brainstorm some ideas and coping strategies with her, ask her how she would like the issue resolved - I imagine part of her is pretty embarrassed about the situation.

I really don't get hysterical -if I am upset I usually just have a good cry on the way home and it's only happened once or twice. I promise, I'm quite stony! My instinct is to be no-nonsense with this at the gates and talk it out later at home. So far, it's not working She doesn't usually cry either just now, not if there's a teacher to handover to. It's fairly calm, which is another reason not to rock the boat?

Did DH actually agree to your suggestion, or did you just assume that because you had suggested it that it was the right thing and that he should just go along with it? I have to say, buying an iPad for something like that may just encourage other behaviour, in order to get more stuff (from a very wiley child). If there is a genuine problem, far better to work with her teachers/support staff and overcome in a reasonable, long term way. Bribery probably won't solve any of the issues causing the problem but may just mask them for a short period whilst she tries to "be good" to get the reward.

To go back to your DH, the one big issue I have is that he did issue a threat but isn't the one there to take her to school, calling the mum of the friend to cancel etc...
In effect he is putting a huge pressure on her, which he knows won't work, but isnt dealing with ANY ofthe unsavoury bits and will not see the consequences of his behaviour on his dd (you will though).

Also from your discussion, I got the feeling you wanted to TALK about it, not for him to DO something about it.

I would be very angry at DH if he did something like this.
And TBH, I would also go against him and keep the cello with her friend tonight.
And then I would have a chat with DH tonight about how you NEVER agreed on a strategy and how unhelpful his idea was.
I would also insist heavily on the fact you need a concerted approach, all signing along the same lines and he doesn't get to call the shots.
The solution needs to be found between you (e.g. The course a PP was talking about or the current/new routine etc...) and then your dd (by getting to the bottom line of the issue).

Fwiw dc2 had similar ish issues. We found that the best way was to encourage her to do little things and a bit more and then a bit more.
In effect, building the self confidence whilst encouraging them to do as much as they could in all sorts of areas, not just going to school.
What made the difference? Time and growing up TBH.

This kind of thing is always going to split people into:

a) get on with it, she's blah blah age, just leave, she needs to learn, 'rod for your own back' etc etc, and

b) something is causing her anxiety and you need to get the bottom of it, although she may not be able to articulate it herself.

The latter thoughts are usually from parents who have had similarly anxious children and it isn't helpful to say 'just let her get on with it'.

I have an anxious child, thankfully better now at 15 (not completely though!), but she has had periods like this through primary and secondary school, mostly related to sickness.

Unfortunately DH was in the 'she's trying it on' camp and felt I needed to toughen up with her, so I do feel for you OP and understand why you are angry with your DH.

It's anxiety OP and you're right not to punish for it. She needs help...not threats! She's not "Playing you" as someone suggested....ten year olds can't maintain that kind of subterfuge!

Speak to her about tactics to help her.

Discuss what she's thinking when she gets upset. Is she afraid of a specific thing happening?

If so, discuss how she can deal with it if it DOES happen.

This is fear based because she's anxious...ask her what she's afraid of poor thing.

It's deeply unfair to your other DD if DD1 is getting a reward for doing something that they just do every day.

If I may say, it's exactely what they do in schools though. Rewarding children who are normally being a pain when they behave normally, like all the other 90% of children in the class do every day.
The idea is that you want to reward good behaviour and effort. Effort for something that isn't coming easily to you but might come easily to everyone else.

DS has significant anxiety issues and your DD is obviously anxious about school drop off.

EP recommended a step plan for DS - work out where you want to get to and the 5-10 steps to get there. Nothing wrong with rewarding her for each step acheived. Many of us react well to well chosen rewards to reinforce behaviour. But one massive reard at the enddoesn;t oil the wheels of small incremental change.

You wants steps that she can agree to and achieve each time.

Put a plan together and agree it with DH.

No-one has ever in my experience been punished out of feeling anxious about something.

I am glad the tone of the answers have softened from the early responses that seemed to be along the lines of just telling the girl to get over herself and go into school. The child is clearly suffering anxiety at the point of entering school and help is needed in addressing this. Very different responses to an earlier thread where the mother talked of being frustrated with her older child's anxiety and all out refusal to go to school.

OP - your husbands actions would have angered me too.

www.youngminds.org.uk/for_parents/worried_about_your_child/anxiety/treating_anxiety

Young minds is a good website and that page has links to other things like helpful relaxation techniques. I have to do the breathing exercises with DS - they are VERY simple and once you've practiced them a few times they really do work. We do them on the car on the way to school

DS is year 6 so same age

And I should add that the school EP was convinced that DS would be a school refuser (due to his other issues) and that he hasn't ever refused to go is a credit to our ability to convince him (and give him the tools to help him) that he can cope.

Not polishing my halo - we have many problems but I can promise you that getting cross or pretending it shouldn't be happening, not only doesn;t work but more importantly doesn't equip your child with the ability to cope in similar situation in future (and there will be some!)

I don't think your approach or your DH's is good at all. Just tell her to stop, leave her in the playground and go and get on with your day. She is 10, which is old enough to explain what is wrong and why she's clinging to you, so just sit down and have a sensible chat, ask if anything is bothering her at school/ why she is being clingy/ discuss what behaviour is and isn't ok at that age etc. then firmly but kindly explain that as of tomorrow, there will be no more clinginess in the mornings - you will drop off and go. If you bribe her with something, she's more likely to hold out for expensive gadgets in future by doing something immature/ annoying.

I also meant to say, with dd she often had tummy pains (anxiety). When things got really bad, I would call dh at work and we'd talk it through together. Her upset made us late some of the time. I did also occasionally not take her because she was beside herself with upset. Once she'd calmed down, I used to take her just before lunch. I think the more you push, the more your child will push. Dd has only been anxious a few times this school year such as the first day in a new class and then the first day with her other teacher in the new class as she has 2 part time teachers.