to think the UK is completely screwed?

[coocookachoo]

We have a crumbling NHS, a quickly sinking pound, huge amounts of people in part time, insecure, low paid work needing to be topped up with benefits just to survive, a Dickensian style housing crisis with the return of squalor and slum landlords, huge divergence between the rich and the poor, schools having their budgets cut by large amounts, councils not having enough money for social care, low interest rates which discourage saving and encourage dangerous speculation, banks more powerful than ever, politicians who ride roughshod over the electorate and whose motives seem to be mainly to line their own pockets, "culture" being watered down to mindless tv shows and inane celebrities...and before anyone blames Brexit, a lot of these problems have existed way before Brexit but will no doubt get even worse now...

Suppermummy02 - you know that TuckersBadLuck was referring to National Insurance, that mandatory tax on employment, don't you?

You need to study hard, work hard and stop expecting everything on a plate.

One of the problems is that you can now do all those things and still find yourself in a situation where decent housing is out of your reach, or that you face no career prospects even if you have any semblance of job security.

And the problem with expecting everything on a plate is that if you're already paying for it, it's a pretty reasonable expectation.

Try living in another developed country and make your comparison.
Money has been wasted here on a grand scale. The NHS is only bad because it has become inefficient and run by hundreds of sub qualified 'managers'.
Things are worse now because we didn't look after things when the money was plentiful.
However where else would you choose to live - is there an ideal country?

Things are worse now because we didn't look after things when the money was plentiful.

When do you think that was?

wasonthelist - it was during Gordon Brown's entire period in office as Chancellor of the Exchequer.

it was during Gordon Brown's entire period in office as Chancellor of the Exchequer.

What definition are you using for "money was plentiful" in comparison with any other post-war UK government?

And the problem with expecting everything on a plate is that if you're already paying for it, it's a pretty reasonable expectation.

Only we are not paying for, we are wanting other tax payers to pay more tax but refuse to vote to pay for more ourselves. Every child in this country gets 14 gets years of a great education and option of a free at the point of study 3 year degree. Yet we have so many skills shortages we are importing people from all over the world to do the jobs. There are plenty of areas for people to have good jobs if they study hard in the right areas, rather than just expecting the state to give you a well paid job even though you have no qualifications.

Three whole lines before blaming landlords for all that is wrong. A new record for mn guardian - swallowing credulousness.

Meanwhile we have drinkable tap water, breathable air, no insect borne diseases, no dangerous wildlife. We are not ruled by a crazy religious system. Anyone old enough can vote or stand for election. We have gender equality. We havent got regular bombs dropping on us. We don't have the right to bear arms. Hell, we even have the best electrical sockets.

Our kids all get free education. No one has to worry that they will not be able to pay for their hospital treatment.

Yes, we need higher taxes, more sensible transport and energy policies and many other things. All of which cost money.

You forgot Cadbury's and Terry's Chocolate Orange being ruined too, OP.

was - the ten consecutive years of growth from 1997-2007 was a pretty unprecedented boom no matter which post-war period one compares it to. Gordon quite deliberately chose to set up a structural deficit during this time in the apparent belief that the boom in tax receipts would never end and someone in the future would pick up the bill. That's why we're fucked now, why there's not money for NHS, for schools, for social care and everything else.

Supper - are you kidding? We pay taxes and in return some children get a 'great' education. Many more get a decidedly mediocre one, and far too many get an absolutely terrible one.

Money was plentiful, tax credits were started in 2003, low income families were brought out of poverty.
The money was printed debt, it masked a low wage, skills, productivity problem, never addressed it.
So here we are today. Richer but still just managing, ever larger cracks papered over with printed money, one third of workers on in work benefits, borrowed from the future, no retirement for the young, no affordable housing.
Was it all an illusion? Some might say.

Sorry, meant laughing at YouDial's comment

Yet we have so many skills shortages we are importing people from all over the world to do the jobs.

We don't have any skills shortages - we have a shortage of skills at a price employers will pay, and cheaper candidates from other countries. That's what globalisation has done for us.

We have a skills shortage in what Brits are prepared to do.
I work in a highly skilled industry and a small but significant proportion of uk grads I see do not want to travel nor put in the hard graft at the bottom. There is a very entitled attitude whereby they want the high up promotion but are not prepared to work.
We are not short of skilled scientists but we are short of grads who want to do the work.

I would just stop reading the guardian and venture outside?

Perhaps borrow a couple of history book? Then you will realise how ridiculous you are being op.
Also remember that despite the fact that a lot of people live in London it is not the whole UK. I live in the midlands and everyone here lives in reasonable accommodation.

a small but significant proportion of uk grads I see do not want to travel nor put in the hard graft at the bottom

Actually that, for me is one of the big things holding us back. Any time things start to show any sign of improvement someone pops up and says people who'd prefer not to spend all their free time travelling to work and/or working "hard" are lazy, entitled etc. When did grinding yourself into the dirt for someone else's dividends and bonuses become so well-respected?

Yanbu. I hate Tory Britain.

Get a grip, we are so fucking fortunate in this country! Can you imagine any citizen of genuinely struggling countries reading this bollocks? It's offensive, frankly

THIS.

Things aren't perfect and there's a lot of uncertainty, whipped up in no small part by the press. But there's a reason why people from less fortunate parts of the world are actually risking life and limb to get here. Lots of reasons, in fact.

I know some people believe we are all doomed after Brexit and all that but we really aren't. There are people in other countries who are living a life of hell. People for whom interest rates, property prices or the rising cost European imports is the least of their worries. They are fighting just to say alive.

I think everyone born in the UK is incredibly lucky. The NHS saved my life and my children's lives on more than one occasion and had we lived here 100 years ago i doubt any of us would have survived. Our children have the opportunity to study at some of the best universities in the world for relatively little cost. Our benefits system is second to none. We live in a civilized democracy with a legal system copied world wide. No guns. No warzones outside our windows. We don't wake up every morning wondering if everyday is our last. No famine. No extreme weather.

The opportunities for us are endless.
Our children have much to look forward too and I look towards Brexit and the future with great hope.

Getting off my soap box now, the sun is shining and I'm outside to breath in some lovely fresh air. People please stop looking for clouds - be happy and proud we live in such an amazing Country.

I've lived in U.K. and a third world country. IMO, the U.K. is bloody great and anyone born here instead of a country where you can't drink the water and die if you can't afford to go to hospital (and also get a free, brilliant education) is very lucky

The reason living standards are going down is because the population has risen dramatically. Historically iving standards have risen after mass death due to illness and war. So as unpalatable as this is, until lots of us start dying enmasse, expect there to be less food/houses/jobs.

Brexit won't destroy us, I'm confident of that. We're British.

What does "we're British" mean in this context?

Or

Now get your stiff upper lip in place because we're British!?

Britain has problems, I think very few would deny that. However, so do a lot of other places. We have friends who live in Spain and the employment situation is dire, DH has family living in some of the bits of France that the tourists would never go to and it is not wonderful. The level of gun crime in the US is mindboggling to me and the thought that falling sick in a developed country could bankrupt you is shocking.