To think OFSTED has lost credibility with most people?

[SnipeBird]

Just an observation really, I have DS going to school this year and been chatting to lots of parents about different schools. General consensus seems to be to ignore Ofsted. Now I see they've appointed someone as CEO who has never taught in a classroom who is supposed to be the expert now on how to improve standards etc. It seems to me they've become an annoyance to most people and certainly lack credibility....

There's no correlation between OFSTED judgments and my experiences of teaching in a variety of schools.

I've known good schools be complacent, unsupportive and uninspiring, carried along by a catchment biased towards the bright and motivated. I've known schools struggling long term where the curriculum and teaching are creative to try to capture every ounce of motivation they can in challenging circumstances, and have excellent pastoral systems. Good can also be good, and special measures/ requires improvement, symptomatic of significant weakness.

OFSTED is very data and paperwork driven. If the school doesn't present the evidence on paper, even if it is meeting criteria in a practical way, the school will be panned. Changes in targets and focus can leave a school scuppered. I've experienced a school suffer in this way when the vocational results that contributed to it being outstanding in the previous inspection were no longer counted, and it then went to special measures in one fell swoop based on core results which had also been affected by an incident involving a statistically significant group of students prior to a key exam. The school probably shouldn't have been outstanding, but it certainly didn't deserve special measures and was a lovely place to teach in.

OFSTED is useful for flagging up some issues but gut instinct is valuable too. Is the atmosphere friendly. Are the displays and environment cared for and respected (even if they're structurally past their best). What's the reputation like (is it a blip or long term trend, established staff or fresh start?) What values does the school prioritise and do they match those of you and your DCs?

OFSTED has its purpose, but isn't the be all and end all in how well a school is actually serving its community.

I have lost all faith in OFSTED. My dds school has just been graded 'requires improvement' down from Good despite its best gcse results ever with more A and B grades at A level than ever before and more Russel Group university offers. They also got several students into Oxbridge which is a first for the school.

Also my DS primary school had some significant safeguarding issues that were never resolved and OFSTED claimed they were just the usual minority of complaining parents you get in every school so completely disregarded those concerns. That school was graded Outstanding, most parents were surprised to say the least.

Its really difficult to respect their judgement when they completely disregard significant issues and do not acknowledge significant achievements.

As a teacher, I've noticed that the biggest impact on OFSTED inspectors is how well the head teacher can "talk the talk". I worked in an awful academy for a couple of terms. The behaviour was appalling. However, it had recently converted to an academy and had a new, young head. The head of the academy trust and the head teacher were very good at knowing the right things to say and the school got a "good". I would never have sent my children there. My DD is thriving in a lovely RI school where the poor staff have to work their backsides off to "prove" things to Ofsted. This isn't good for staff retention.

The healthcare equivalent of OFSTED is the CQC who failed to spot that over 1,000 patients died unnecessarily at Mid Staffs including some who starved to death. They also failed to notice the appalling midwifery practices at Morecambe Bay which led to the loss of many babies who shouldn't have died and it only eventually came to light when a father of a baby who died of an easily treatable infection, refused to give up campaigning for the truth to come out.
I have just had a look at DD's school's OFSTED report and it bears absolutely no resemblance to the school that I've known for seven years.

I would never make a decision based on an OFSTED report although I would read them before visiting. A couple of the OFSTED outstanding schools around here are awful,they get their results by having a middle class catchment with parents happy to tutor and getting rid of SEN children by firstly not agreeing to allow parents of children with statements/ EHCP to visit and then being awful when an admitted child has SEN and suggesting parents look elsewhere.
Likewise dd's primary school was only rated good, parents and children love it, it's hugely inclusive, SEN support is phenomenal, it's in a area of huge deprivation yet the progress children make is excellent considering their starting points and it's grown 50% in two years because of it's reputation locally. No idea whether it will ever be recognised as outstanding though because a significant number of children won't make the grade academically regardless (a good percentage move to special school for secondary)

I have zero respect for Ofsted.

As a childcarer I sent all requested documents bar one very important vital piece yet they sent my Certificate for approval immediately with no questions.

That missing document?

First Aid!

Ofsted is meaningless.

The Ofsted reports were suprisingly accurate for both our infant and junior schools here I found. It didn't put me off the schools (in reality we had no choice unless we moved house) but made me aware of the areas where I would perhaps need to put in more effort myself.

It's a far cry from my days at school where it was common to have at least one alcoholic teacher, another who appeared insane clincally and others who thought it fine not to update their teaching notes for a decade or more. I do think some external monitoring is necessary myself. But that doesn't make me think Ofsted is perfect.

Ofsted are a pile of poo.

Don't agree with the comments about not finding many outstanding schools in rough areas. I live in the middle of an extremely deprived area and the school is outstanding. They get extra funding and use it well. They actually train up other schools in the area (even ones from nicer areas). The local high school is outstanding too and in another neighbouring rough area. One of the other local high schools is in the middle of a lovely (posh) area and only has good.

I didn't have confidence in them after dn's secondary got a new head on a mission to "get a better Ofsted" and made some sweeping changes against the will of pupils and parents, like introducing uniform and also special trips for certain ethnic groups. The HT's view was that they would 'impress Ofsted', and indeed the report, which made us all laugh for hours, showed the inspectors hadn't seen through any of it.

I'd now definitely work to avoid an Outstanding school or nursery - the one nursery I wouldn't send any child to was 'Outstanding' but belittled kids even when showing parents round (and made a couple other parents cry!). Local Outstanding school had admin staff scared of the HT and wouldn't let a disabled mum have a baby in a pram on the tour. Dn's Outstanding primary has made it very clear that they would really like any ASD kid or any with 'difficulties' to move to a 'more suitable' school nearby, ie any other.

What would be useful is just visiting the reports and commenting on the criteria, so parents can read the good, bad, and interesting info. Dcs' nursery got Satisfactory, Good, Inadequate and Good while they were there. The conclusion was generally they were excellent but rather disorganised with paperwork (small place, key staff remembered everything). Good to know.

Inspections have probably got rid of the really rubbish teachers who used to be around in the 70s, 80s, and probably 90s, who just read from a textbook, or went to sleep, or told you to watch a video and shut it, every lesson for years. they've probably also forced out some excellent teachers too.

I read OFSTED reports but they are not the major factor for me when choosing schools. Much more important is how the school feels on visiting. Having an autistic child the way staff relate to children was very important for me. When choosing a Primary school we viewed four and chose the school where the person showing us round (a teacher) squatted down to listen to DS and answer his questions. THE only person in the four school visits who did so. Choosing a school was easy after that, and it wasn't the "Outstanding" school up the road to us.

I think we do need OFSTED for monitoring stuff but their reports are not ever a guide for me.

Everyone says they take no notice.
However the reality is that a school round here that gets outstanding from good goes from being undersubscribed to massively over subscribed.
And it's the same parents saying the former that do the latter.

Same here, Witchend. Houseprices and last admission distance also correlate with last Ofsted report.

My old school was classed as SM which was far from the truth - we had very deprived/academically very low intake and we worked our backsides off for each individual student. Whilst they weren't getting the top grades their VA score was the highest in the city, we got them to attend regularly despite many of them we had to clothe etc. A lot of previous students have gone on to very successful careers/uni

After a few years we were finally classed as Satisfactory (old money!) and the nearest school went into SM; by this time however our intake can severely diminished and the other school was to take us over (we were in a building that needed lots and lots of cash to maintain whilst the other school was a nice new build)....they amazingly got out of SM just in time to take us over - 12 months later they were back in SM I left when they took us over

Never trust OFSTED - it's a political tool used as and when needed

Ofsted are inconsistent, unreliable and have done nothing to drive up standards. In fact I would go so far as to say they have caused irreparable damage to the education system.

You are right to ignore Ofsted reports.

It's the wealthier which do that witchend, I couldn't afford to just up and move no matter what the OFSTED reports say. Many other people can't either.

I was fortunate in having four okay schools close by but it wasn't the OFSTED report that swayed me in choosing a school. Even if it had been an OFSTED failing school I would still have chosen it for DS because the staff there were fabulous when we visited wi him.

This week's TES indicates the success of the last few years with complaints against Ofsted by schools at a record low. Ofsted under Michael Wilshaw has cut back completely on outsourcing teams of inspectors so they are now in house only which aids consistency in maintaining standards across schools. Michael Wilshaw has been outspoken in his opposition to grammar schools and selection. He has many opponents but under him Ofsted has blossomed.

I view it as a spectrum. Up at the 'Outstanding' end they probably spend all day dancing to OFSTED's tune and fulfilling their every silly whim, which I find irritating and the two Outstanding schools in my area are grade-chasing, discriminatory, C-obsessed and devoid of personality. The sort that sent kids home for wearing a coat inside, the kind that expelled bullying victims if the bully was predicted a better grade. I know there are wonderful Outstanding schools, but my local ones just... aren't.

The Good schools seem far more normal to me. They have some challenging intakes, only around 60% pass rates and the occasional crumbling building, but that's just life. It seems realistic. They seem passionate, enthusiastic and willing to care for every single child.

However, it takes a fair bit of effort to slip underneath 'Good'. Requires Improvement' I might take a second look at if they've got a really good reason for the slip, but honestly - our Good schools are pretty rough-and-ready, around here they must have made some serious errors to not achieve that.

Down at 'Inadequate' you're talking massive safeguarding issues. Something has categorically gone very, very wrong. Throw all the money you want at it, but the problem might not be one you can fix with money. We just had a nursery rated Inadequate after they brought in random family members to 'act' as staff, no checks, no qualifications, no experience, nothing. That kind of poor decision-making or disregard for the rules puts children at risk. You've messed up massively and honestly, there are places where that level of messed-upness can't be redeemed.

My hometown had two Inadequate schools, both completely beyond salvation. Both had to close after pupil numbers plummeted and those that did attend suffered greatly from extremely bad teaching (which in the final years became no teaching, as staff had left and they couldn't replace) and poor infrastructure (building leaked, flooded and finally arson damaged, but council couldn't afford to repair). It's a poor town, neighboured by poor towns. Those poor towns have Good schools. Those kids got As. Yet this one town failed so many kids despite suffering all the same issues as the others.

Just because Ofsted reports are the ONLY source official information on which parents can judge the quality of a school, that doesn't mean that the reports are accurate, nor does it mean Ofsted are judging schools on the criteria that are actually important to parents (or children).

So, saying 'I think Ofsted is credible because it gives parents information about schools' is only really true if you can trust that information. Which you can't, imo. Partly because Ofsted's goalposts change like the wind, partly because it all comes down to the inspectors you get on the day and partly because what Ofsted are judging schools on is not necessarily what's important. It's just what the government have decided should look important this week.
Ds' primary school had Ofsted today. I really hope that the inspirational Head, fantastic teachers, great SATS results, great behaviour and lovely community atmosphere will be enough to get them a 'Good' (they deserve Outstanding), but frankly it's far from certain. There's bound to be some meaningless data box or other they've failed to tick because they were too bustly actually teaching the children. Can you tell I'm a teacher?

They haven't 'lost' credibility because they never had it in the first place.

Totally agree op.

Oh and yes, I've worked in a so-called Outstanding school that was awful too, like previous posters.

Alfie it isn't anything to do with wealthier. They're not moving to get it, we have a number of local schools that people might in any year get into either from where they live. For example when dd1 went to infant school, they were very boy heavy because the local story was that boys did better at that school, and girls did better at the other. Neither was oversubscribed, and both were not dreadful walking distance, so people genuinely had the choice of either.
Then one got outstanding and suddenly could have filled a third form-over double the applications for 1st place they'd had the previous year. So people who would have got them easily didn't stand a chance.

There were even people who had a child at one school, putting the siblings in the other.

Actually I have a lot more time for ofsted now than previously. In the last two-three years, all inspectors now need to have been very good teachers and have done management at a school and do hugely intensive training to become an inspector now. Schools can't wing it in one off brilliant lessons anymore. I have more respect for the body now than I did before, both as a teacher and as a parent.