not to want my gallbladder removed?

[bezinee]

A few weeks back out of the blue found myself in agonizing pain. Ended up in A&E where the dr said he thought it was biliary colic, and I should have an ultrasound.

Went back to GP, who agreed to refer me (after some persuasion). GP said if the scan found anything I'd have to have surgery..

Have now had scan, turns out I do have one, fairly large, gallstone.

After the first attack, I had one other a fortnight later (after eating some deep fried food). Since then, I've been taking ibuprofen and paracetamol 3x a day, and although I've had the odd twinge, no further problems.

My GP, hospital, everyone I talk to, seems to be saying I should have my gallbladder removed - but I'm not sure that's what I want. I'm now being really careful with my diet, have stopped eating chocolate, biscuits, crisps etc and am losing weight (which I feel should help - and because the first attack happened after a chocolate binge).

AIBU to want to avoid the op?

Have you considered the risks of taking paracetamol and ibuprofen daily? I would be concerned about that moreso than the surgery itself, usually these can be carried out laparoscopically and so reduce recovery time

Go and see the GP and you will probably be referred to see a surgeon. I had mine out 4 years ago. I had one bad attack and ended up in a&e - my husband thought I was having a heart attack.
I had 12 gallstones and had keyhole surgery to have it out and ended up staying in overnight as I didn't have the surgery until the afternoon. I had 3 weeks off work as it was very uncomfortable for a few weeks but I am absolutely fine now and can eat anything. No problems, and no pain.
You will need to have it removed eventually as gallstones won't go away.

YABVU if you value the advice of a bunch of unqualified strangers over medical opinion. Even those on here who are medically qualified wont know your history/have examined you. ask your GP/consultant why its necessary and whether you have other options. YADNBU to not want it done though. I dont like hospitals either

You dont have to do anything you dont want to. That is the beauty of life in the UK. But you do have to live with the consequences of your choices. If you are happy to do so, then happy to you. But getting liver failure from too much paracetamol, or ulcers from too much Ibuprofen, regular ED attendances for agonising pain, that is what you are signing up for, and if you are happy for that, then thats ok. Your body, your decision.

I got pancreatitis because of gallstones. It started when I was pregnant.

I still have some pain to be honest nearly 2 years later and random bouts of diarrhoea but I'd do it all again if I had to. Pancreatitis was grim.

Benzine, in your op you say that your GP and the hospital have advised you to have your gallbladder removed. If your self measured BMI is over 40 then I assume that even without an official measurement of your BMI they have made their own assessment of your suitability and more importantly your NEED for the operation, obese or not.

For someone of your size a planned keyhole surgery as a day care patient will be far safer for you than an emergency operation requiring a longer convalescence. Please do not waste your time researching for magic potions to dissolve the stones. get back to your Gp asap and ask to be referred back to the hospital for the operation.

The GP and A&E dr both said removal was the option if I had gallstones and the pain continued, but obviously I've not seen my GP since it was confirmed the gallstone was there.

I doubt they would have any idea of my true BMI, it's normally assumed to be a lot lower than it is (I'm a size 18-20, so whilst I'm clearly not of a normal BMI, most people, drs included, don't know I weigh over 18st ).

Following with interest as my GP recently told me that policy is only to remove in case of inflammation or infection of the gall bladder, not simply presence of gallstones. She said they would go down route of pain management (diclofenac?) rather than operate unless no alternative. Wonder if it is a postcode thing?

Bez, you're running a hell of a risk of some nasty complications.
I too have gallstones, granted lots of little ones so more risky. They're hereditary and my uncle almost died of pancreatitis following complications with his.

My gallbladder is permanently inflamed so I will probably have to have the open procedure rather than keyhole which is my preferred option. I'm a carer for my three disabled children so five days in hospital is going to be a real problem.

But being six feet under will be an even greater problem so I'm going to have to go with it. I don't like it but it's short term issues for long term gain.

I found ibuprofen was the only thing that helped with a attack, but my gp told me you aren't supposed to take it for stomach related problems. So check that out with your own gp.
I found myself the attacks varied, the firsts ones were actually quite mild and I didn't really worry to much.
But then they got worse. Then one day the pain just didn't stop. 10 days I was going back and fro to the gp, I couldn't eat I lived on juice. Then I went yellow, I was finally admitted to hospital with pancreatitus which was caused my a stone blocking the bile duct. I was in hospital for 2 and a half weeks. I had a second bout of pancreatitus while I was still in. I was sent home and given a day for a fortnight later to have my gall bladder removed. 10 days later I was admitted was bout number 3 of pancreatitus and my gallbladder was removed.
In all I spent longer than a month in pain and 3 weeks in hospital.
In some areas the referral can take years and require a couple of emergency hospital admissions. I know someone who was hospitalised 3 times and ended up paying to go private.
So I would go on the list if I was you and see how long a referral takes

DSD1 is 24 and facing surgically induced diabetes because she has had repeated gallstones and pancreatitis, resulting in the last CT scan showing extensive damage to her pancreas. The consultant has scheduled her surgery for June but she is to be operated on immediately if she has another attack because she had gallstones, pancreatitis and kidney stones all in the same attack. She's young and has a healthy BMI, yet still developed gallstones. Seeing the pain she was in and the complications that have developed, i would say get it done.

OP,just try and remember that agonizing pain!It will surely come again at the most inopportune time.
I had mine out and never looked back.
The worst thing would be having to have an emergency operation one day when you are very very old .
Good luck!You will not know yourself once it is done.

That's interesting party - the dr who scanned me did say my gallbladder looked normal on scans, as did other organs. Apparently my bloods are also normal - not sure whether that's relevant?

Will see what GP says!

bezinee - if it helps, my BMI is over 30
I had a day case GA and I'm petrified of being sick so I asked for anti sickness which they happily gave me. I woke up and had toast and tea and was discharged an hour after coming round. I was so scared as it was my first GA but it was fine. My dad had one years and years ago and was v worried about another but he had one last year and said it was so much better than the one he had ages ago

It's your decision 100% but I would recommend that you do have the op.

I was still having gallstone attacks whilst following the weight watchers plan where I had very fat at all in my diet, sometimes the attacks just came out of nowhere so despite following a low fat low sugar diet I was still in agony.

Since having it out a couple of months ago I have been absolutely fine and can eat whatever I want without the fear of being left in agony.

Ok, there's a fair bit of misadvise and scaremongering here.
If you don't want to have it out, you don't have to. Especially if you have just had bilary colic (spasm of the GB), rather than cholecystitis (inflammation of the GB). In fact, there is a study going on at the moment that I know of which is comparing results of watch and see vs operation.
If you have one big stone, you are much less likely to have complications with your pancreas (pancreatitis) as it the the little gravelly stones/ sludge which tend to travel down to there. It's also probably too big to get into the common bile duct.
Weight wise, yes, it would be better to weigh less and some people find they can control their symptoms with a low fat diet (Rosemary Conley, anyone remember from the 80's?)
However, the vast majority of people who have their gallbladders removed are going to have a BMI in their 30's and 40's isn't that uncommon. Depending on the hospital protocol where you live, you may even be able to have it done as a daycare. Our cut off is 40.
There are complications with any surgery. People have dies after surgery. however, the vast majority either have no complication or a minor one. People have also died because they didn't have the operation. I'm not scaremongering because the figures for deaths either with or without surgery are incredibly small, I'm just trying to point out that it is not black and white.
My advice would be to get referred to the surgeon and see what she says (yes, it might be a she). In the meantime, continue with your low fat diet and weightless as it will be beneficial.
Good luck with whatever decision you make.

Excuse typos and just seen your update that your bloods are normal - yes, that is good. If your LFTs (liver function tests) were abnormal, you would need more tests and ultimately, the advise would be to have the operation.

i don't need daily painkillers as most of the time it's fine, I just need the codeine/buscopan combination for an attack.

Quite encouraging that it is possible to have daycare surgery potentially with a high BMI, I'd assumed it wouldn't be possible. Personally I can't wait to be shot of mine now and it's my priority for 2017, but I have had issues for the best part of 14 years now.

I had a gall bladder scan last summer and was told there were no stones but I get a lot of symptoms, gas, the burps, pain in back.
Nothing severe that I need to take a pain killer for.
It doesn't make me vomit, nothing like that.

My BMW is probably about 25-26...could do to lose a few lbs but nothing too serious.

Sometimes a feeling that I know my liver is there, like a grumbling iyswim

Again not rolling around the floor in agony.
Will look at getting tested for lactase and gluten intolerance as I've never been tested just tend to omit them...otherwise it's a mystery.

At the moment I have no pain or symptoms at all if I stick to 3x daily ibuprofen and paracetamol. I have codeine but only used it when I had the bad attack. If I slip - one day I was really busy at work / home and forgot to take any tablets, I felt a bit achy, but was fine again once Id taken them. I use a hot water bottle if i have any twinges too

I am a Dr. OP, please make an appt with your GP to discuss this- your GP needs to know that you are needing to take regular analgesia to control your symptoms (even though those symptoms are seemingly mild). You are not symptom free so "not actively causing bother" doesn't quite apply in this situation.

As I said, your GP will need to refer to the surgeons who can make an assessment and advise you what your options are and the risks vs benefits of those options. I my experience, the fact you are having on-going symptoms requiring pain-killers would suggest surgery may well be offered. If surgery is recommended and what is putting you off is concerns re the anaesthetic you can see one of the anaesthetists to talk this through. A lot has changed since your last procedure, so it may be more straight forward than you think.

Most hospitals ask patients coming in for elective surgery to attend a "pre-assessment clinic" where your anaesthetic risks are assessed, pre-op bloods or other simple tests can be done, as well as advised re stopping medications prior to surgery and so on. This is often done by nurses but they will have access to an anaesthetist to discuss any more complicated patients, so this is an ideal time to explain your concerns.

So dr jack if your liver/ gall bladder were out of kilter would it show up in your bloods.

I had mine done 18 months ago now and my gp said I had very healthy blood.

Op hon, you are kidding yourself if you think the taking of some otc painkillers is in anyway preventing attacks.

I imagine once you'v had a few more the op will seem like more of an option.

Though maybe you didn't have a full blown attack? The pain for me was a horror. I thought I was dying.

As for the safety of an op given your worry about your size, only the docs can help you weigh up the risks and benefits.

My aunt tried to manage hers through diet. Ended up with "sludge", in her bile duct. They did some exploratory procedure to assess the situation and she suffered multiple organ failure afterwards and died about 3w later. This is incredibly rare btw. But shit does happen.

The advice now, (I think, am not a medic), is to take out the gall bladder as soon as issues start arising and avoid complications later.

A lot probably depends on whether it was s full blown attack and whether it recurs.

Hope you are spared any further attacks. Was personally pretty glad to say goodbye to mine!

I had mine removed in June last year after a series of very painful attacks and an infection between March and April. I was offered surgery after my first attack and gallstone diagnosis 9 months earlier but decided to wait. My decision to 'wait and see' was, in hindsight the wrong choice for me. I''m glad mine is out now and I've been lucky not to have any issues post surgery.

I think the bloods is not a guarantee, mine were normal but I still have a stone! But Dowser if you have no stone, and symptoms maybe something else going on which could show up in blood tests...

My weight is worrying me. Since this started I'm not eating much, I have breakfast, lunch dinner (bran flakes or toast, then a roll or small portion of leftovers, and a normal dinner) and a piece of fruit or toast after dinner if I'm hungry. It's a lot less than I was eating before all this, so I should lose weight surely? I did speak to my GP about weight loss, the only suggestion was to refer me to Slimming World, which I really didn't get on with as it seemed to revolve around stuffing yourself with food, most of which I didn't like. Anyway that's another thread. I used to walk 16k a week but stopped that a few months ago, am hoping to start again (though prob only 5k.at first!) later this month.

My mother had her gallbladder out in her 60s and never looked back. This was about 20 years ago and she was kept in a couple of days, but it was done via keyhole. A colleague of mine had her one out last summer and was back at work in 3 weeks, but it was only as long as that because she had a mild infection.

I really understand your worries about anaesthetic. I am very difficult and am better to be left to sleep it off after being wakened in recovery. I generally sleep for at least 6 hours post-op and can vomit for Queen and country. Having said that, the doctors are told about this and manage me much more efficiently than after my first ever general, when I vomited on and off for 12 hours after being woken by a visitor. Anaesthetics have moved on a lot - I know how scary it is, believe me, but in your case, I would not hesitate to get the gallbladder out.