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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU about this flexible working request

91 replies

zeezeek · 06/01/2017 09:49

I've had a flexible working request from someone in my team. As he's childfree it's not for any childcare responsibilities, but because he's just been appointed as Chair of Governors at a local primary school due to the fact that the school has recently had a poor (undeserved in my opinion) OfSTED inspection. As he is an experienced Governor he has been brought in to help the school's governing board improve.

To do that he will need time out of the day to attend meetings and visit the school, so has asked if he could have flexible working to allow that. He is mostly based in the office and has the sort of job that can be done from home or can catch up in the evenings - he's perfectly willing to do that as and when necessary. So I am happy to grant his request.

However, last year I had to turn down another person's request. She wanted to cut her hours so that she had a day at home with her children. I had to refuse her request due to the fact that she was working on a project that had some very tight and important deadlines coming up and her role was (still is) vital to the success of the project and there was no-one who was experienced enough in that particular field to cover her for that day. She was obviously upset and annoyed, but accepted the decision.

Now I'm concerned that if I agree to this new request I'm going to end up pissing off another valued member of staff, but don't want to turn down his request because it is completely reasonable and we can accomodate it. It is likely that in about 6 months time I might be able to allow the other one, but at the moment it is very much all hands on deck with that project.

AIBU to allow one and not the other?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 06/01/2017 16:45

If the employer doesn't provide justification for not allowing time off for public duty, the next step would be for the employee to raise a written grievance.

In which case the employer will have to end up providing the justification to either a union rep or an employment tribunal (or both).

So a simple 'No, as we feel it may negatively impact the business' is not good enough.

SandyY2K · 07/01/2017 00:02

Can you justify declining the request within the 8 legal reasons? Can you provide evidence under any of those headings?

If you can ... then decline if not don't.

Do you provide a written reason for declinning as required by law?

Original poster
zeezeek · 07/01/2017 10:30

Sandy - yes, for the first request. I have no reason to decline the second one, so I haven't.

The first person is naturally annoyed now and has informed me she will be going to HR for advice as she believes that a request from a parent trumps that of a non parent. Was hoping that this situation wouldn't arise and that we could sort it out informally. She knows the pressures that we are under with this project and was aware that I needed someone in that role full time throughout the course of the project - it was discussed thoroughly at the time of her appointment as she had previously been working part time.

I don't want her to leave, but I'm not going to be held to ransom like this. Especially as the alternative will have a massive impact on the delivery of this project and could reduce my chances of getting further programme grants from them - that could lead to me having to make other members of the team redundant.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 07/01/2017 10:43

If she believes that her request as a parent trumps his I hope HR make it clear to her that that is not the case.

Original poster
zeezeek · 07/01/2017 10:46

I was shocked she pulled that trick, ilovesooty. I thought better of her. If she wanted part time work then she shouldn't have applied for a post that make it clear it was full time.

OP posts:
haveacupoftea · 07/01/2017 10:55

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Approve the request and you have favourites and it's not fair. Decline the request and you're a harridan who won't let anyone work flexibly. Just do whats right and approve the one you can.

trollspoopglitter · 07/01/2017 11:37

Worra, the law says the employer only needs to allow jury duty. As an employee you can raise a grievance about whatever the hell you want, but that doesn't mean you actually have a case and it's ridiculous to suggest you can win a tribunal because you chose to volunteer as a school governor and don't want to take the time off out of your annual leave.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 07/01/2017 11:53

a request from a parent trumps that of a non parent.

Wow isn't she a peach Hmm

Trills · 07/01/2017 12:07

a request from a parent trumps that of a non parent

I think you've been very reasonable

Iggi999 · 07/01/2017 12:08

I believe legislation used to have "Care of child under 5" or something like that as a reason for flex working (I know it was on the first such form I filled in) but that is no longer the case and anyone can apply.

Trills · 07/01/2017 12:13

I actually think it's important that non-parents SHOULD use flexible working.

If people in general use flexible working, use it well, and demonstrate that (if the type of work is amenable) it does not hurt productivity, then that's better for everyone.

It will also work against the kind of prejudice where someone hiring a woman with children will think she's probably the primary carer, she'll want to leave early, let's hire the man instead.

Iggi999 · 07/01/2017 14:14

My dh has used flex working to mind our children. In my work, a lot of older (50+) people do it, just to have more free time. I have known different people to do it to work on a PhD, write a book, and do voluntary work. But it is overwhelming women wanting to look after children who apply ime.

Poocatcherchampion · 07/01/2017 14:23

Shame if she had kicked off but if she wants 4 days can you give her 2 half days off so that she is in contact all five?

I agree the more people who go for flexible working the better.

Original poster
zeezeek · 07/01/2017 16:21

If I could have possibly approved her request I would have. If she worked on another project then I would have approved it, but the workload on hers is such that she is needed all day, every day. She had the opportunity 2 years ago to decide whether this was the right move for her - she decided it was and even said she wanted to concentrate on her career after spending 3 years part time.

OP posts:
Original poster
zeezeek · 07/01/2017 16:23

The guy whose request I have approved will need about half a day off a week and is happy to make up the time at home, even though he doesn't have to as he's so efficient goes above and beyond anyway and usually takes on extra work to help out others.

OP posts:
InTheDessert · 07/01/2017 17:32

So, parental application wished to drop a days work each week, with noone available to take up the extra. Denied on the effect on the business.
Second application wished to have the flexibility to be in a different location half a day a week, and no work needs to be reassigned, as it will be covered at "unconventional" times, with no affect on business. No grounds to deny, as no effect on the business.
I can't see the problem - although I can understand the parents dissapointment, it isn't comparing apples with apples.

Iggi999 · 07/01/2017 17:45

People can make mistakes though, she may have been committed to full time and then the reality of it wasn't what she hoped for (been there done that).

myfavouritecolourispurple · 07/01/2017 18:18

My husband works full time but he compresses his hours into 3 long days and 2 short days. I think he may do one hour less a week overall. Would something like that work for you and your awkward employee.

And no, a parent's rights do not trump a non-parent. Having children IS a lifestyle choice, nobody does it for the good of the planet. If I want a day off a week and my employer can accommodate it, that's all that is needed. It is not for the employer (or colleagues) to make a value judgment on the reasons for the request. I may have children or adult relatives to care for. Or I might just want to go for bike rides with friends. Or sleep in an extra morning a week. Or spend the time on MN. None of it is the employer's business. The only thing the employer has to consider is whether they can accommodate the request and whether the work will still get done.

harderandharder2breathe · 07/01/2017 18:20

iggi yes people make mistakes, but that doesn't mean they can always change their mind, as in this case she couldn't fit perfectly valid business reasons

Iggi999 · 07/01/2017 20:30

I quite agree, just responding to OP's comment that she (the employee) had the opportunity in the past to not work full time, but chose ft.

Original poster
zeezeek · 07/01/2017 20:37

Iggi yes, I think that's the crux of it. However I can't help her at present and thought she understood that, but it seems this latest request has managed to piss her off.

Have spoken to DH today and between us we think we can come up with a plan for if she does leave - he is semi retired, but works in the same field so could take on some work with me which will free me up to take over her duties, however that will massively impact on my own family and my husband's other commitments.

OP posts:
RogueStar01 · 09/01/2017 10:28

i think this was predictable - she sounds desperate to me tbh. I think you should have found a way to give her a bit more flexibility - at the moment, what kind of good work are you going to get from her now she's thoroughly demotivated? tbh - if you'd offered her friday afternoons or every other week off but asked her to keep project deadlines and if she could do that, she ought to have been able to make up the time after the kids went to bed. Do you otherwise in general have an issue with her not producing enough? Generally I've been allowed to set my own hours because I'll get the work done in the evenings if needed.

RogueStar01 · 09/01/2017 10:30

i mean friday every other week off...it seems a bit nose/face that you're now putting in place plans for her leaving rather than allowing her to work a little bit less. I'm not trying to be unkind, but surely you can see losing her altogether is worse than your DH stepping up 1 day a week and her being more productive and engaged?

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 09/01/2017 10:36

I think you should have found a way to give her a bit more flexibility

Do every time everyone asks for flexibility they should automatically get it, especially if they throw the 'I'm more important than you because I have DC' card around?

If it isn't viable for the business to give her flexible working then it isn't viable.

RogueStar01 · 09/01/2017 10:40

i don't like her playing the parent card either piglet, people should be good enough at their jobs to earn flexibility imo. That said, my point really was that if Op has an important demotivated employee she's going to lose, it's worth her trying to work something out with her DH backfilling the time. Not because she's right that she gets to call trumps but because it IS in fact best for the Op's overall project to get the primary resource working as best she can. And it should be talked about in these terms because if it's a choice between 0% and 85%, the latter is better. Op's own family will take a much larger hit if this person leaves.