To think a privatised health service would be an improvement?

[WhiteStars]

At the moment we all have to be grateful for the overstretched and often inefficient service we receive. I had a 9am appointment today with a nurse practitioner. At that time in the morning she was already running 25 mins late on her appointments- how?!

She also couldn't use her computer system so I had to then wait for a doctor to come and issue the standard repeat prescription (I couldn't get this over the phone as needed a blood pressure check). The doctor then issued the wrong medication and only corrected it when I noticed she had done the wrong thing on the screen.

All very minor but not a great service at all really. We all know how over stretched the service is and everyone says it's at breaking point. Why is everyone so against paying for health insurance and getting a better service or going private?

It's not uncommon to hear of people waiting weeks to get an appointment and not being able to book in advance. The government would save an inordinate amount of money that could be ploughed into schools whilst subsidising some health services but with people paying an annual health insurance fee. We already pay for prescriptions in England. I would rather have a better private service than the NHS as it is now- on it's last legs and not really fit for purpose any more. AIBU?

Yes, I am aware of that. I do work in one.

The problem with having a system that demands people take out private insurance is that the people who need the most healthcare are usually not in a position to afford insurance.

Take my family. When my DS was first diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes I rushed home from the hospital and Googled his condition. I didn't think to restrict my search to UK only. The first few sites I opened in response to the search term "my child has diabetes" were American and they launched straight in to the ruinous costs and possible bankruptcy that were likely to be the result of having a diabetic child. I felt profoundly grateful for the NHS and have felt so ever since.

My DS had extremely unstable diabetes. From his early teens for a good 7 years my DS was admitted to hospital roughly once every two months, nearly always in an ambulance. I hate to think how much it would have cost privately. It was incredibly stressful and exhausting. As a widow and lone parent I found it impossible to take a job outside the home. I had my own tiny business and managed to keep that going but it was very tough. Had I also had to navigate private health insurance I think I might have gone under.

People who are carers, or who have long-term chronic health problems are very unlikely to be eligible for private insurance. Indeed, the worse someone's health the less likely they are to be able to pay for it.

The NHS is such a good system because it provides care free at the point of delivery. That way my healthy friends, relatives and neighbours are contributing to a system most used by my sick DS and other people in need. We contribute to a system we hope not to need. Of course all of us will use the NHS at some point. On the whole people with serious health problems are also skint. That's just a fact. And it's tough enough trying to care for a disabled family member without having to navigate potential bankruptcy as well.

The Americans have a phrase "catastrophic illness". It refers to an illness that ruins a family financially. Says it all, really.

I am wholly against privatising the NHS and believe that many people would suffer from reduced care and increased costs in a private system.

This government and previous governments have systematically underfunded it but I do think the public are to partly to blame for the current problems too. I suspect that people would behave very differently if they were paying even small amounts at the point of treatment.
Examples like the one given by Madison are very common.

People nowadays want their problems solved instantly so where, a generation ago, people would wait a while and use common sense with minor and self-limiting problems, now, many of them expect the NHS to do it all. I am regularly amazed by the number of people who ask for paracetamol, hayfever remedies, cough and cold products and even medicines to take on holiday. There will be sometimes those things are clinically appropriate but the requests/demands are far in excess of that

I worked within the NHS for 15 years and the problem is all the deadwood which really needs dealing with, endless managers, my department had 2 which was totally unnecessary both seemed to spend most of their days in 'meetings' rather than actually managing the department. Certain members of the administration staff who complained that the work load was too much (even though they spent most days gossiping) so temps were brought in to help the work load!, endless sickies and a consultant who would regularly have 2-3 hour lunch beaks but was in fact down the road at his private clinic!!

Using private health care via insurance is really stressful (we have it via my DH's work). You have to constantly be checking what is covered, what your limits will be, calling for approval, justifying yourself, paying for co-insurance (a certain % of the cost up to a certain amount), signing forms to say you will pay if the insurance doesn't cover it. Basically worrying all the time in case you do something wrong and get a huge bill that you can't afford. Then I have seen people be transferred to an NHS hospital because the private one is not equipped for an emergency situation! I think we all have a part to play in protecting our amazing NHS, as we'll be screwed if we don't.

DownWithThatSort0fThing I live in one of the areas that has a private company scrutinising every GP referral. A friend was referred to hospital by their GP under the 2ww after going to see the GP about a suspicious lump. A call centre rang my friend to say that they don't need to see the consultant and the referral had been cancelled. Friend ask if this person was medically trained - "no, but our flow chart says that a referral is not clinically indicated .....". A fucking flow chart!?

Friend's GP re-referred the same day and it was again rejected. Referred again, again rejected. GP ended up ringing the consultant himself and booking an appointment directly at source. Friend went to appointment. Friend has cancer. Thankfully it's been caught in the early stages and will be treatable but imagine if friend had simply said "okay" when the call centre rejected the referral, as many people probably would?

The provision of health care to everyone, regardless of wealth, is surely one of the central pillars of a civilised modern society. The idea of living in a country where some people are denied access to life-saving and life-transforming treatments, while others just buy it, is abhorrent.

Clearly medicine has moved on considerably since the NHS came into being. This means tough choices on what to include and what not include. The decisions are sometimes question able, but the principle of free at the point of need remains. That is something to be really proud of.

The NHS has its frustrations. It is stretched so much that it only takes one patient to cause a domino effect of delays, and the way appointment times are allocated without any opportunity to communicate when might be more or less convenient is dated. But it has massive support and even Jeremy Hunt knows he can't abolish it.

Surely the answer to the NHS being underfunded isn't to privatise. It's to find it properly.

Prompto, where they trying to imply that she didnt meet the one size fits all of the criteria?

I work in the NHS as a junior doctor. There is poor management yes but I don't think the issue is too many managers but many of the ones we have are rubbish and lots of short sighted cost cutting. For example my trust recently moved to electronic dictation of letters to save costs by pooling typists. However now instead of each junior doctor having their own (analogue) dictaphone there is now one in my department connected to one computer in one office (not near the clinic rooms) for the use of 17 junior doctors! Also the pooled typist does not know all of the (admittedly complicated) medical terminology like the old medical secretary did so letters are often mistyped. This means that, letters are delayed in being dictated and often wrong therefore costing more as they have to be redone a few times! (Dont get me started on why doctors cant type their own letters - they can but that would mean that more than one office/desk/computer would need to be provided for the 17 of us! (And we would need a printer but due to cost cutting that has been removed - so if I need to print a form I have to walk to the ward managers office - delaying my next patient))

On the private companies doing NHS outsourced work one of the considerations that never gets mentioned is this private companies dont have to train nurses and doctors like the NHS does. Take the dermatology service in Nottingham for instance, not only now its privately run is the service rubbish for patients but no medical students at Nottinghams large medical school are now being trained in dermatology or junior doctors getting the experience of working in a top class unit, therefore even less dermatologists being trained = even less dermatology consultants = worse service for patients. If more services are outsourced without them being contractually required to teach then we will have even less doctors or nurses.

And finally on why outpatients don't start till 9.30? The consultants have to ward round (see) the inpatients first and this can take a while!

Everyday I feel sick at the thought of my son having to pay the equivalent of $1000 a month for his insulin, let alone the costs of his insulin pump, test strips, etc as people have to in the US if they are not adequately covered by insurance. He doesn't cost the NHS a fraction of this: because of our system, insulin is sold at a much lower price here. People in the States are going without food because they can't afford to give themselves insulin for the meal.

Just to be clear, he has type 1 diabetes which isn't related to diet and if he goes without insulin (which he takes continuously, with extra doses each time he eats) for a couple of days he will die.

He won a rare lego mini figure on a scratch card recently and when I realised how much they are going for on eBay, I thought, great, if he keeps it he can sell it to pay for insulin if he ever gets really, really stuck.

No, I don't think we would be better off without the NHS.

prompto My Dad had something similar and then his wait was managed by them moving him between three different hospitals so he was never more than 4 months on a wait list.

Turns out he has had prostate cancer for 2 years. Now the option is removal. The complications from removal are far greater. IF they had given him an appointment and dealt with the matter 2 years ago radiation would have probably worked and he wouldn't need the expensive surgery or aftercare that comes with prostate removal.

The NHS is totally underfunded from the number of HCPs who are being trained (not just doctors and nurses but also therapists) to equipment and services such as cleaning.

It should never take someone getting their MP involved and initiating legal proceedings to get care. This is not what the NHS is about or what Britain has ever been about. I am ashamed that our society has sunk so low. Those in need should be helped. That is why we pay our taxes.

I am by no means wedded to the status quo. I have got to say though, that while the private health care providers I have used have all been very good, health insurers are the very spawn of the devil. A significant number of friends who have private health insurance have been very let down by their insurance companies and the US experience is not encouraging.

What people need in order to become open to changing how we get healthcare is trust that the government proposing change is not going to leave the poor and those with high or complex needs in the lurch. Which is not something any Tory government is likely to attract.

ansolutely wannabe
the economic costs also need to be considered.

• having to take half a day annual leave to attend a dr appointment due to
• not being able to work because of long waiting times for surgery/treatment
• having to feed/care for relatives in hospital due to inadequate food/care
• having additional/more complicated treatment due to delays (as wannabe describes)

T1mum What you are saying isn't 100% accurate. My son as ASD. If we were low income we would be covered by the state program and our son would have his medical needs met 100% via medicaid. All the hospitals we use for DS accept medicaid. The private hospitals what don't accept medicaid can't help him anyway.

For an issue like diabetes the issues with affordability come in if you are earning between $50-120k and live in a high cost area like the NY Metro area. This is why so many people in that income bracket live out in PA and drive to NYC for work. You can buy a home for $100k freeing up money for expenses such as health insurance if you child has an issue.

In the town I live in they have diabetes clinics which are free to everyone no matter your income or status (ie you don't have to be a resident, live in the town or be documented). They give out free test strips, insulin and check-ups. They are funded via a state program which gives grants. Yes its not perfect but it is not as bad your post makes out.

At the moment we all have to be grateful for the overstretched and often inefficient service we receive. I had a 9am appointment today with a nurse practitioner. At that time in the morning she was already running 25 mins late on her appointments- how?!

Our GPs has took over three other surgeries. In September last year. My asthma was playing up and DS had conjunctivitis. Pharmacy wouldn't sell me the drops I knew I needed and kept insisting he needed seeing by a doctor first. DSs appointment was 8:40am (good job too as transpired he needed abs for an infection as well as eyedrops) at one surgery, my own was at 2pm at a different surgery. I asked the receptionist if there was any way they could squeeze me in as I really didn't feel well. 10 minutes later I was in the nurses room attached to a nebuliser after being carried through by the receptionist.

When DD was younger the reason we were waiting so long for an appointment once was because the patient before us had gone into cardiac arrest in front of the GP and was later stretchered and blue lighted off in an ambulance.

Instances like the above involving awkward patients like myself are often why they're already running late by mid morning.

Private is fine if you can afford it, but many don't, and there's many instances where private mess up make mistakes and have to refer to nhs to fix things anyway. I am in the strange position where I'm a frequent flyer due to my conditions, and have already had to use part of the 'private' bits of the NHS (some of the bits they've outsourced if that's the right word). I cant fault the people who dealt with me that day. They didn't think twice about helping me, standing up to the knackered and tired and overworked nhs doc who was convinced I was fine and insisted on ringing me an ambulance and sending me back in.

We paid e for an assessment for DS once. It was worth every penny but would never be able to keep up those kind of payments long term.

The problem with the NHS is the fatcats political people, mps and the like treating it like a business. It was never intended to be one.

I think people underestimate how much treatment costs even if you can afford insurance. Those of us with dogs might have more of an idea of costs/insurance etc :o

I am a carer for a child with a severe disability and I grew up with a sibling with chronic health needs. The nhs needs more money but I still trust them. I'm having a minor operation in a private hospital the end of the month and tbh I would prefer to be in the closest nhs hospital in case anything goes wrong

Want2bSupermum - paying $1000 plus a month for supplies on a $50,000 income (quite apart from endo appointments, hba1c tests, retinopathy screening etc) is huge.

The NHS may feel bad value to some however it has been there to deliver my child, many thousands of pounds even if all had gone to plan. In the end an emergency cs, picu and transitional care. Then health visitors, school nursing and GP as needed for a healthy child. Not to mention the care for one of my parents who now has parkinsons disease. I have witnessed the emergency services and medical staff try to save my DH's life. I have worked and paid national insurance since 16, even as a student. For several years I have paid tax at the higher rate. I am under no illusion. I have paid in less than I have taken out, I am in debit. I am therfore slightly confused as to how private health care would be be better.

A 'privatised' health service would be different to a 'private' one. I think folks here are missing the difference. A 'privatised' health service would still be paid for with public money but run by private companies under contract to Government. So in theory, these companies would be more efficient. But in practice I notice that private companies are just as capable of employing incompetent staff as public bodies.

T1mum That is why so many people in that income bracket have one adult working for cash in hand. Nannies/cleaners/handymen(and women) in my local area are all paid cash in hand. If their OH has a good wage they don't marry. You cannot find a nanny if you want them to be on the books. They just won't do it because they won't qualify for help with medical costs or other help such as section 8 housing, utilities and childcare expenses.

I don't blame them either. This is the land of looking after number one. That is exactly what they are doing.

The introduction of a non-medical gatekeeper who yays-or-nays each referral, as described by downwith, is straight out of the US playbook, where the insurance companies do this.

US primary care physicians spend, IIRC, over 25 % of their working time trying to get insurance companies to pay for their patients to have treatment.

Since the Health and Social Care Act 2012, I'm not at all surprised this is now being rolled out in the UK. The whole point of the Act is to create a structure with lots of opportunities for private profit within healthcare - by outsourcing existing services or inventing new "services" to the public or to other healthcare organisations.

NHS is not free, it is paid via National Insurance

I think that alot of people go to doctors when they could have gone to a pharmacy first

If you know people that have long term illnesses or life threatening illnesses, I believe it was stated on the news recently that 30 years ago some people would not have survived. Modern medecine is keeping more people alive

I believe that another statistic stated that most people use the NHS in their older years and this costs the most

It is easy to criticise the NHS when you are in good health !

I thought Air ambulances were funded by NHS, but I think they are run by private companies or charities

Th