Do I have a foolproof way to get the primary place at desired school?

[TeenAndTween]

No of course I don't.

This is a public service announcement to anyone with a child due to start school in September in England.

• use all your choices
• put them in your preferred order
• make sure you have a safe bet on there somewhere, even if you don't like it much
• get your application in on time

Better to have a rubbish school on your doorstep than one 10 miles away.
Just putting down one choice doesn't force them to give you it.
Don't lie about where you live, it's dishonest.

Read the admissions criteria, remember they may have changed since your eldest first went 10 years ago.

If you have detailed questions or a complicated situation then ask on the Primary board under Education as there are some very helpful experts there.

For pedants. AIBU to raise points about school applications that some people may be unaware of to stop them making a massive mistake with their applications?

Children being adopted have usually been through some very tough times. They may really need a particular school for all sorts of reasons.

Ok, thanks for explaining rafals and invisible; it completely makes sense that 'looked after' would include 'ever looked after'. Sorry for asking a question that I probably should have just researched myself.

ElasticGirl - it makes no difference to your chances for the 2nd choice. Basically, for each school, they have a list for all children who've applied for a place there and list them in order, so if they get 200 applications, all will be ordered 1-200 depending on the criteria. If there are 60 places, the first 60 would get a place, however if a child is also on another school's list in their 60 places and has put that as a 1st choice, they'll get that one, so drop off the 2nd choice school's list, and everyone moves up a place, so 61 will get a place, and so on and so on.

After April when the offers are made, there will be a chance to stay on the waiting list for any school you applied for originally, which will be in order according to the critiera as well. It doesn't matter if you are on the wait list of more than one school. Some people will turn down their places - because they've decided to go private or home school, or have moved out of the area between January and April, so then a few on the wait lists will get a new place and there's more movement.

You can accept one school place and then stay on the wait list for another school. Do not turn down a school place until you have another one confirmed unless you are prepared to home school. Turning down your place at school A will not get you higher up the wait list for school B. The council only have to offer you a place, they don't have to find you a place at a school you like. If you are offered a place and turn it down, the council have completed their obligation.

It's OK. It did used to mean only those in local authority care, it's only changed in the last few years.

Understand that the whole admissions system is basically a matrix. So 50 children want a place at X school, which has 30 reception places. Top priority goes to one category (i.e. Looked after children), next places to the next category down (i.e. siblings) and so on, then usually distance from the school, and that's it until the class is filled.

There are no rooms full of cackling staff gleefully putting their relatives children in the outstanding schools, and no one cares about your childcare arrangements, whether you need after school club or for the school to be within walking distance of your MIL who will be picking up three times a week.

Don't let this thread degenerate into a faith school bashing thread.

Oh let's.

I have no qualms saying it's disgusting that the local RC secondary prioritises all categories of baptised RC children above LAC with no faith.

Thanks Rafals and InvisibleKitten, very helpful!

Any current state primary school head out there? Does a school necessarily know whether a child is adopted? Isn't it up to the parents who is informed, or does adoption have to be declared at registration?

And when you've done all that and the precious envelope (or email!) arrives, telling you that your child has been offered a place:

Do not forget to accept it! You will lose the place if you don't confirm acceptance.

The other thing to realise is it is no use saying 'I'll just appeal'.
Appealing for places in Reception (or y1 and y2) generally means having to overcome Infant Class Size restrictions (where class sizes are limited to 30). There are only very few circumstances whereby appeals under ICS will be successful (e.g. mistakes in process).
The following are not good enough reasons

• but I like it
• I don't want my child mixing with the riff raff at BlogSchool
• it's hard to get my child to their allocated school
• childminder doesn't collect from allocated school
• best friend is going there

re adopted children.

• My DDs both have significant 'extra' needs even 9 years after adoption.
• It doesn't apply to step children being adopted by step parent
• It doesn't apply by statute to children adopted from overseas

Look very, very carefully at any faith schools selection criteria. I still find it unbelievable in the 21st century that a publicly funded institution (regardless of who owns the land) can discriminate on the basis of the faith. Your local children's hospital could not say 'oh no you are Catholic please wait here until we have seen all the Church of England children'. Oh you are Muslim there is no way you can come in. A friend of mine rather foolishly believed that living close to her local C of E school and christening her child would be enough. But no she wasn't marked high enough for religious dedication. completely insane way to allocate places.

Beezie You don't have to tell the school a child is adopted. But why wouldn't you?

On school application it bumps you up the priority list making you as near as certain you'll get your preferred school.
Being adopted comes with extra money to the school which should be spent on your child to boost their educational outcome.
If there are any 'issues' with your child the school will understand the background and be better able to support.
There may be curriculum issues which are difficult which you need to explain.
If there are any issues with photos and papers/internet you may find the school more willing to accommodate in a happy flexible manner.

Just 👍

I really think there should be a campaign to buy the land off the churches or to not include faith schools in the LEA numbers, but that's not going to happen when there's not a financial boom or when there's a shortage of places as there currently is.

It's a pity because often the people who first started faith schools really were trying to do a social good - they were trying to provide a free education at a time when only the wealthy got to be educated, and yes, often put conditions of the land/money/buildings to stop their gift being used for general church funds, or the poorer of the parish losing out for a place against richer people from other towns/areas, but now they just get blamed for LEAs trying to provide state places on the cheap.

There should be enough state places without LEAs needing to rely on faith schools. But that would be expensive. Much easier to fudge it and blame the churches rather than the lack of non-faith school provision in some areas.

Round here most of the C of E schools don't have any faith criteria in their admissions. They're genuine community schools, which is what they were all originally meant to be. But I understand this is quite rare elsewhere now.

Alternatively move to Scotland where this is not an issue. Apart from religious bigotry, we can do you a fine line in that.

Just coming back to make a random comment in order to bump for the morning crowd because this is important.

Don't reject an 'improving' school on your doorstep in favour of an 'outstanding' one miles away. It's very likely the improving school will become 'outstanding' within a year or two at most.

Suburban but why would you want your child to attend a Catholic school if they weren't Catholic? Genuine question.

Some excellent advice by TeenAndTween already.

On looked-after children: the oversubscription criterion covers children currently in care and those adopted from care (so family adoptions won't usually be included). Some faith schools have a set of oversubscription criteria for children of the faith and then (below those) oversubscription criteria for other children. So LAC of the faith will be the first admissions category but, depending on the school's oversubscription criteria, LAC not of the faith may be quite a long way down the admissions categories, although still above all other children not of the faith.

Most Catholic schools are top performing. Also some areas only have faith schools so them rejecting people not of the faith means a lengthy commute.

Or move to Scotland, and buy/rent in the set, never changing catchment area for your preferred school.

Job done.

Most catholic school are not top performing. What a biased sweeping statement. It totally depends on the individual school.

I do think moving to Scotland is a bit drastic!

Though compared with renting somewhere just to try to beat the system whilst still owning own home, at least it is legal.

And moving to Scotland will also save on university tuition fees in 13 year's time too I suppose.