To be completley flabbergasted that rape within marriage wasn't a crime for so long?

[user1483314270]

It was made illegal in 1991. I was born in 1988 so it was still legal in my lifetime.

I actually only found this out recently as I'm doing an access to law course at college and I'm still completely that it was legal for so long and within my lifetime.

I actually have an essay to write and I have to talk about the case which resulted in it becoming a criminal offence and it got me thinking about it again.

Seriously though, wtf! Why was it made illegal earlier? I think if someone had asked me prior to starting my college course when it was made a illegal I probably would have assumed the 1960's or the 70's at a push but the 1990's! Seriously!

Misc possibly not top of your agenda but did you report this woman?! I am so sorry that was your experience.

After 3 years of an emotionally and physically abusive relationship I started sex counselling, as my XH had me believe there was something wrong with me because I didn't want to have sex with him (think once or twice in 3 years), hell... I was definitely withholding it! As soon as I explained that physical and emotional abuse to the counsellor she gently explained that in all probability the reason I couldn't bring myself to let him touch me was because of his abuse. That hadn't occurred to me.

Her next suggestion was to have a bag for me and young DD packed and ready for whenever it got to the stage I had the courage to leave.

It took one more year, the day he kicked me in the face for me to finally take her up on her advice.

Could the poster the DH read in the loos have meant that a victim withholding sex is a sign that the victim is suffering domestic abuse? That's how I initially read that in the PP. Because consciously or not, I definitely was.

....Another example might be withholding while telling the partner they are ugly, fat, etc. or flaunting affairs.

The abuse here is the humiliation of the partner, not the lack of intimacy... the two must be kept separate if we are to avoid the potential for intimacy to be something that a partner feels obliged to provide.

I agree, Bananabread. That was part of the point I was trying to make, but perhaps not clearly.

The posters I remember (usually done by a DVIP im pretty sure it was started by one in the vague North beginning with L using Deluth materials)

Talked about withholding affection, and they had an example of something like ignoring/cold shoulder/blanking that type of thing

I am 48 and grew up in an era where domestic violence wasn't taken seriously. I remember watching Police dramas as a child and hearing 'it's just a domestic' regularly i.e. Men beating the shit out of their wives was a private matter. Both my grandmothers were born before women had the right to vote on the same terms as men. Less than 100 years ago, women couldn't vote Saudi Arabia only gave women the vote in 2011.
Our rights are still fragile and not to be taken for granted.

LittleWing i have asked DH and although he remembers mentioning the poster to me he can't remember exactly how it was worded. As far as i remember it was a list of things that an abuser might do but i never saw the poster myself so couldn't say for sure

Talked about withholding affection, and they had an example of something like ignoring/cold shoulder/blanking that type of thing

Those things don't constitute abuse in my opinion, or we risk devaluing the word. Clearly not talking to your partner or giving them the cold shoulder your means something up, but to call it abuse?!? There are times when my DP has angered me when I may be clipped or cold (to avoid an argument), and vice versa. Are we both abusers in some kind of co-dependent abusive relationship? I really don't think so. We're just an ordinary couple who have their moments.

A few years ago I was with a friend and a group of her other friends I didn't know.

They were talking about blow jobs and were genuinely astounded at the idea that they had any right to refuse to perform them at the will of their dp.

Providing any sexual service on demand was just what they expected of their relationships.

These were women born in the 1980s.

I think it's important to remember that abuse is primarily a pattern of behavior so that some things that in isolation might not seem abusive in a relationship may be part of a pattern of abuse. But I also think that it's important, as suggested by Bananabread's posts, to distinguish between a relationship that might not be working very well at times and one that is abusive.

I agree that rape in marriage should be illegal but I think people are maybe being a bit OTT about what went on in the 20th century. My family weren't well off but my great grandmother kicked her husband out and brought up 4 children by herself, that was in late 19th and early 20th century. Grandmother repeated the pattern but she only had 3 children. My mother was a widow. Women were able to have a life without men.

Rape wasn't always blamed on the woman, I worked in a large metropolitan police force in the 70s and 80s and worked on many rape cases, including 2 men who were raping prostitutes. I only heard one police officer make a derogatory remark about it not being possible to rape a prostitute and our DCI soon put him straight.

I had a friend in the late 60s who wasn't interested in sex. Her husband forced her to go to the GP to discuss her problem. The GPs advice to her husband was that he was an inconsiderate lazy man and if she had more help with children and housework and a husband who was less controlling with money then she might feel less depressed and get her libido back.

I don't doubt that some women had a rough time, some still do, but we weren't exactly living in the dark ages.

*They were talking about blow jobs and were genuinely astounded at the idea that they had any right to refuse to perform them at the will of their dp.

Providing any sexual service on demand was just what they expected of their relationships.

These were women born in the 1980s.*

Bloody hell I was born in the early 50s and no one I knew as a young woman would have gone along with that.

Dunno Banana maybe you need to "live it to get it". Hell even I didn't get it at the time, I just thought I deserved it. It was my punishment for being in the wrong. And i was always in the wrong.

Beebeeeight

Out of interest, what was the background/culture of these women?....

There is recent very depressing research into teenage girl's thinking about anal sex.....

We are kidding ourselves if we think that women of any age are all finding it easy to say no when they don't want sex- or a particular sort of sex.

My DD is a teacher and she has told me that the online porn young people are accessing is giving them a very unpleasant view of sex and relationships. I think it is very sad and doesn't bode well for future relationships.

I was working in a warehouse in the early 90's when this was made law, and one of the blokes there started ranting about it, something along the lines of "and now they're calling it rape if you force your wife to have sex with you"! The rest of us blokes were a little shocked (mild understatement) and gave him quite a wide berth. We couldn't look at him the same again, and it was no surprise to find out he was actually divorced.

This is a ZOMBIE THREAD bumped by a spammer.

@Ajaysmith

This is the third thread I have come across that you have bought up. It is not on to do this and the wrong way to go about things.

If you contact MN I am sure they will support your agenda but this is not the way to do it

Ajaysmith there is a dedicated part for Petitions.

Sorry, I am completely new to Mumsnet and was trying to reach as many likeminded people as I could. Didn’t mean any harm

Please could you let me know where the petition area is? Thanks :-)

The front page of Relationships has several zombie threads on it that have been resurrected by this poster promoting their petition.
While I haveno issue with the petition itself, I think it highly inappropriate to use another MNers thread in this way.

Plus it’s against Talk Guidelines to link to petitions anywhere other than the Petitions board.

Hi all,

We're closing this thread now as it was started over a year ago. Ajaysmith we've sent you a mail, please check your inbox.

The posters here are correct, we only allow petitions in our designated Petitions topic.