To bring this up? ** non-graphic discussion of abuse**

[jayisforjessica]

This popped up on my Facebook feed tonight. It's an article about a meme, depicting a five year old girl, with the words "I am 5. My body is my body. Don't force me to kiss or hug. I am learning about consent and your support on this will help me keep myself safe for the rest of my life."

The article details more about the thought process behind the creation of the meme, via quotes from its creator, and goes on to talk about how polarizing it has apparently been. There are comments from both sides for contrast.

Meme and discussion are here

AIBU to ask you all what you think? I have to be honest, this is a touchy subject for me because my son has experienced having his boundaries ignored. My ex-DP and I always took a similar stance to the meme's creator.

I just have a lot of feelings about this meme and want to talk about it and people here are pretty good about getting stuck into a conversation, haha.

User you are being very aggressive and abusive right now. And why would you assume you are the only one who has been abused? I was raped repeatedly, daily sometimes and by multipul abusers for alot of my childhood. I also have worked with abased children and adults and taken part in alot of child protection training. A big part of that is looking at the language used and the messages it puts out there to others, and the idea that being string has anything to do with avoiding being abused isn't a helpful one as putting that message out their leaves others at risk and combines to the idea that it's something the child does or doesn't do that gets them molested- which isn't the case.

And offering a different pov or opposing information doesn't mean people are offended, I can disagree with out being offended.

It isn't offence I'm worried about, user, it's ensuring victims of abuse are crystal clear that it was not their fault. If that offends, so be it.

What happened to you was not your fault.

Well the fact that I didn't keep returning to his window stopped him coercing me didn't it? So that WAS something I did!

Stupid to deny it.

I totally agree with this meme. I think it's awful how some parents try to force children to hug / kiss relatives. I am not one of those parents. Children should have autonomy over their bodies, just like adults do.

Jaffa cakes - I definitely do not agree with making your child shake hands either. It's the same thing. If he doesn't want physical contact (even if it's "just" shaking hands), then that is HIS decision to make, not yours. And also I don't agree with making the DC kiss relatives on the cheek. You can be perfectly polite and greet people without forcing unnecessary physical contact onto them.

user - I think we have very different perspectives on this. i have no desire for a confrontation with you.

Boundaries good. Because I stand by what I say about how I dealt with it and refuse to have some stranger on the internet make me upset about my definition of how I coped.

It's stupid to deny that even if you are strong, abusers won't peruse you.

I never denied that. I spoke of MY experience. I called myself strong for managing to ignore a persistent old man who kept calling me as I passed daily.

I told nobody.

I was strong.

You were strong.

And your potential abuser chose to not pursue you.

I'm sorry you didn't tell anyone. Dealing with a potentially abusive situation alone must have been hard

I am not sure how I feel about this.

I agree with the sentiment, and that children shouldn't be told to kiss people they don't want to.

But a hug or a handshake? That's just polite. You wouldn't walk into a business meeting and shake everyone's hand bar one person you don't like the look of. I think a hug goodbye with family is to be expected. And it would be bad manners not to.

Difficult to say where the line is though if pervey uncle Jo wants hugs in private all the time. So I understand why you are saying what you are.

Boundaries he was housebound. He couldn;t have got to me other than the way he did....through an open window.

So I stopped his only access to me by not going up to the window any longer.

I was strong to do so. It was the 1970s and children did as they were told.

Oh and I do hope you're getting something out of consitently denying my expeirence Boundaries Leave it alone now would you?

Nobody should have to kiss or hug anyone they don't want to - child or adult.

How do you teach your child to show what they want, learn to say no and learn only they have control of their bodies if you make them kiss aunt Beetha or Uncle Tom.

Would you like to give X a hug is fine if you feel your child won't feel pressured to do so.

I don't understand why anyone would be against this, to be honest.

Telling nobody isn't strong or not and a strange thing to include within this context

User things may have been different, that man may have chosen to come out and groom you in a different way, that you may not have seen through, or he may have abducted you, all of which would have been based on him and you being 'strong' or not will have had no baring on his actions.

Abusers are manipulative, and predatory, and abuse is their fault. The child's behaviour has no part in that. It is not the child's responsibility to be strong or not.

You maybe talking about your experience, but your wording has an effect on how society views abuse and it carries on the wrong message that the child should know better. If you had gone to the window again that wouldn't have meant you weren't strong. If you had gone inside and worse happened that wouldn't have meant you weren't strong. And it wouldn't have meant you were at fault. If you had done these things and you were saying I was so weak and stupid that I fell for it, then we would all be challenging that assertion. Your actions were not the deciding factor in whether or not you were victimised, his were. And it's important to challenge that because we already have a victim blaming culture in the country. What a victim does doesn't get the abused or not, it's the abusers actions that do that.

Aye there are situations within meetings where adults decline to shake hands- an old psychiatrist I worked with allways apologised for her germ -a-phobia meaning she didn't shake hands. Equally we never expected service users to shake hands within review meetings unless they took the lead.

Most work meetings I pressumed adults wouldn't be vulnerable so would be able to understand that shaking hands doesn't mean they have to put up with their boss slapping their butt or similar later. Children are vulnerable so need time to learn their bodily boundaries are what matter. I allways tell them it's OK to say no thank you to hugs and often my kids will hide behind me and say I'm shy as their reason. Which isn't inpolite in any way.

Yes I agree, especially if kids don't want to kiss Auntie Maud on the cheek, or give Grandad a hug, but they should greet them politely by saying Hello and being polite.

I totally agree. A child shouldn't be forced to hug or kiss anyone, especially someone three times their size. My DD's quite affectionate and usually likes to hug people butI've made it clear if she doesn't want to that's fine there are others way she can politely say goodbye or hello.

Mabey a highfive or a wave, something else, that does not require intimate contact.

I won't apologise for challenging your choice of words, user.

I also won't stop doing that.

But I believe you. I in no way deny your experience.

I am a bit divided on this. Surely common sense would prevail in most situations. I am an old gimmer from a very big family where children where expected to be seen and not heard and although we would have been told to hug or kiss people (not asked) we were never forced to do it. Nor have I ever witnessed it even though i have a huge extended family and have worked in various forms of childcare for decades. I just can't imagine any loving parent with any sense actually forcing their child to kiss or hug someone when they really don't want to. My issue with the meme and its sentiment is that its part of a bigger picture, whereby children seem to be encouraged to do what they please, when they please which just isn't properly preparing them for life imo.

I dont agree that unwanted contact including hugs, handshakes or a kiss on the cheek are somehow OK.
They are not, I dont do them now as an adult. Politeness and good manners can be verbal, they dont have to be physical.

I remember being forced to kiss a great aunt on the lips for buying me a balloon. I'll never forget that pinky orange coloured lipstick! Then running to the bathroom to scrub my lips with a toothbrush. (I worried about germs a lot.)

I got my own back on my father who was insisting I kiss her, when a spray of her saliva issued forth onto my toast whilst she was talking at breakfast. "Here daddy, I've already put butter and jam on it for you."

My mother was abused but only recently told us. I think we grew up with confused messages from her. On one hand, she wanted to feel 'normal' about affection and physical contact between relatives and did force us to kiss and hug relatives but on the other hand she sees all men capable of abuse towards women / children. As a result, I am unsure about physical contact.

We now live in France where kissing relative strangers is part of the culture. I find it terribly awkward and much prefer the option available to men where they shake hands with each other rather than having to kiss hello and good bye to men and women.

Sunshine thanks for your explanation - that was really helpful: I was with Aye in that I couldn't imagine exercising my bodily autonomy, as any adult, in refusing to shake hands with someone I dislike -but you've explained how that might be the natural response in some situations -thank you! I've only met religious men (from several religions) who've refused my hand (and now I err on the side of caution in those situations!) but by and large, as adults, we do tend to override our feelings for the sake of convention.

That said, I refuse to social kiss people I haven’t been formally introduced to

My issue with the meme and its sentiment is that its part of a bigger picture, whereby children seem to be encouraged to do what they please, when they please which just isn't properly preparing them for life imo.

There is a HUGE difference between "say hello to Uncle Joe" and "give Uncle Joe a kiss". The first one is manners, it's expecting the child to greet Uncle Joe, and enforcing it means teaching the child that Uncle Joe is a person who deserves respect and recognition. The second one isn't manners, it is physical affection, and enforcing it means teaching the child that they don't have a choice about whether or not they kiss Uncle Joe.