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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To sack the cleaner?

47 replies

Octoberrat · 19/12/2016 09:57

I really can't decide if I'm being heartless or not.

She has cleaned for us for just over a year. Positives - she is a good cleaner, and is very cheap for the area (£8 per hour). She is very honest.

The negatives: It's 50/50 if she will turn up. She leads a chaotic life, where there always seems to be a drama. Her kids regularly get ill, she can't come in the holidays, she's rowing with her partner, she's been mugged, her car is broken down...

I was very patient and supportive at first, but it's becoming difficult to work around her lack of reliability. I have two small children, and like to try and get out of the house while she's here - obviously very difficult to plan when she's almost always late, and often doesn't turn up at all.

She's going through a lot of personal problems at the moment, and I have supported her through this for the last six weeks (not coming because of depression, relationship problems etc., or leaving early, or leaving the job half done). But I'm getting to the stage where I think there's no point having a cleaner if I'm getting more stressed about whether she'll come and/or finish the job!

Obviously it's also Christmas and I don't want to add to her money worries at this time of year. I think there's also some guilt - her life is much more complicated and seemingly unpleasant than mine - it feels like sticking the boot in someone worse off than I am.

Thoughts welcomed!

OP posts:

Randomposter · 19/12/2016 12:20

Tell her your financial situation has changed and you're having to cut back on non essentials. But wait until January.

Original poster

Octoberrat · 19/12/2016 13:00

She is self employed. I would like to be honest with her about why we no longer require her services - might help her in the future.

But would certainly be easier to tell her our circumstances have changed!

OP posts:

FinallyHere · 19/12/2016 13:01

I would pay her off the next time you see here. By all means, pay up to January but let her know right away what you have decided. Don't let her cruise through Christmas, and possibly overspend, only to find out there is no longer a job available.

While I applaud your patience, in this instance I think it is misplaced. I'm with the people who said the first time have a word, the second time get rid. Pay a few weeks in lie of notice, so they are no longer in your home. If you show sympathy and endless patience, you are being suckered into their world of drama, which normalises lateness.

SaucyJack · 19/12/2016 13:15

Just get rid. She needs to grow up.

Ain't nobody got time for the dramz.

CauliflowerSqueeze · 19/12/2016 13:32

Make sure you get the key back.

WorraLiberty · 19/12/2016 14:26

That's what I was thinking Dangly - that she would be self employed.

I wasn't 100% sure though when the OP referred to 'sacking' her, but I get now she just means she'll stop using her cleaning service.

Much easier than the whole mine field of being an employer.

DanglyEarOrnaments · 19/12/2016 14:48

Yeah, this is it Worra, I've always said, I don't know why people get their knickers in a twist about 'sacking' cleaners, it's not 'sacking at all' - you don't have to follow normal employment procedures and give notices of expected improvement or warnings, you don't have to pay any notice.

All you do is cancel services and take your money elsewhere after comparing quotes and service levels offered around your area.

Some cleaners/services will have you sign a contract which ties you in for a notice period but many do not and if you haven't signed a contract you can tell them you don't need them anymore.

It's not wrong or immoral, this is the way people in business learn to provide a better service. Anyone with their own business knows they can be cancelled if the client no longer wishes to purchase their services. This is how you learn to be the best you can be. You do someone a favour really if you give them the heads up.

harshbuttrue1980 · 19/12/2016 14:48

She sounds rubbish, but then you're hardly a gem of an employer either, paying her £8 an hour. I doubt you'll get anyone better unless you are prepared to pay a decent rate. Either pay a living wage for someone to do a good job, or do your own cleaning. Paying peanuts and then whinging when you get monkeys just doesn't make sense. I pay my cleaner £12 an hour and she's great.

dingdongthewitchishere · 19/12/2016 15:03

but then you're hardly a gem of an employer either, paying her £8 an hour

I suppose the OP is paying what the cleaner is asking for! If you like to pay more than the asking price, it's your call, but I don't. £8 is cheap, but not unreasonable.

DanglyEarOrnaments · 19/12/2016 15:06

But harsh that is the cleaner's price, she obviously sets her prices and not her clients so OP is just paying what she was asked for, if you have other trades in and they charge a cheap price you don't say 'Oh that's not much would you like me to pay more'. You just buy it. (or not!)

I agree it's peanuts but then she's offering peanuts in terms of service level in return.

We are a long established professional cleaning service and we charge more than double that amount when you include VAT, but we can't hire and train quickly enough to meet the demand but then our service level is very high and the people who hire us want that.

I think the OP has realised now that she has chosen a very cheap service level and that is what she got but she would like something better now and i should imagine would pay more for this.

VeryBitchyRestingFace · 19/12/2016 15:07

Make sure you get the key back.

Lolz.

LunaLoveg00d · 19/12/2016 15:08

I used to have a cleaner like that and it was a nightmare. She often didn;t turn up, or would text me the night before and say she'd be there on Friday instead of Wednesday, or would say she could only do 2 hours instead of 3. She was a good cleaner but a total pain. She was married, had a supportive husband and two school-age children.

I now have another cleaner who has never let me down, ever. She is a single mum to two kids, has acres of dramas with her ex being an arse, a very sick terminally ill father but doesn't let any of that interfere with her work. She is super reliable and fantastic.

CauliflowerSqueeze · 19/12/2016 15:12

The key comment - I wasn't suggesting she was untrustworthy and might steal but her partner doesn't sound particularly stable...

Original poster

Octoberrat · 19/12/2016 17:07

Thanks all - of course I paid what the cleaner asked - I asked for quotes and recommendations, and yes, she was the cheapest but was also very personable and came with several references that I checked out. We had no problems at all for the first few months.

I am absolutely happy to pay more for a better service - but as other posters have said, I have never yet negotiated upwards with a contractor! I don't think offering her more money for a better service would work because I don't feel that it's financial issues that are driving her behaviour.

I need a one-off clean (after decorators) this week, so am trying someone new, and if they do well, I may be able to offer them regular work in the new year.

I am seeing my regular cleaner on Wednesday this week (rescheduled from today), so will let her do a clean as normal, let her enjoy Christmas and then in the new year speak to her about returning the keys. I will pay her for one additional session, as we have no formal notice agreed.

OP posts:

CoraPirbright · 19/12/2016 17:19

Its funny (peculiar, not ha-ha) isn't it - I read so often on here of people being so worried about sacking their cleaners for being rubbish/unreliable etc. If you were a head teacher for example, and you had a teacher who just didn't turn up half the time or was really crap at the job then there would be no question - you would def fire them. I guess what I am saying is that they are doing a job just like any other and I have a feeling that residual guilt (i.e. I could be cleaning myself but I am paying someone else to do it) def plays a part.

You sound terribly nice so, perhaps to make yourself feel better, you could give her quite a long notice period. But I do think you should find someone else - its giving you more stress than it should and your cleaner should behave in a more professional manner (and put her fees up too - £8 is really low these days...).

NavyandWhite · 19/12/2016 17:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Octoberrat · 19/12/2016 17:36

Yes, guilt plays a part. I am paying her to do something I could absolutely do myself, if I weren't so inapt/lazy. I am at home with the children, so not even working at the moment. I do run a business from home though.

There is also the guilt that I am better off than her, and she is working hard, whilst I am ostensibly sitting around my nice big house.

It isn't a straightforward as a purely professional setting where you would sack someone for poor behaviour. They have keys to your house, come into your home, and build a sort of relationship with you. So it does feel more personal.

OP posts:

Ldnmum2015 · 19/12/2016 17:37

I also agree she is charging you a very low rate (£16 wouldn't buy you more than 1hr10mins with most cleaners, that is if they are prepared to do less than the usual 2hr min) so I would be a little concerned as to how she can afford to operate after costs, for £8, is she too timid to up her prices, maybe her being unreliable is her why of getting out of the booking, the risk you take when paying the cheapest is that a better paying customer may come along, and nick them off you. Good luck with the next one!

PrincessConsuelaTheSecond · 19/12/2016 17:37

Is she definitely self employed and not an employee? Is that documented in the from of a contract?

I only ask because the last thing you want is an employment tribunal claim because you're discriminating on the grounds of her depression or her childcare responsibilities...

A family friend was sued by her childminder for similar reasons so I'm rather cautious!

dingdongthewitchishere · 19/12/2016 19:00

In my local area, (South East London) cleaners charge between £10 and £12 an hour, cleaning companies a bit more. £16 sounds VERY expensive, but maybe in Central London?

Original poster

Octoberrat · 19/12/2016 20:22

We have no contract - it has always been by mutual agreement. I'm as sure as can be she won't sue!

The average around here is £10-£12 an hour, but I suspect she doesn't have insurance/overheads - it is a casual arrangement.

OP posts:

OneADayAndThenWhat · 20/12/2016 09:17

A much fairer option would be for you to tell her you will pay her the going rate but that you now require her to be 100% punctual.

You could do a trial and see how it goes.

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