AIBU a strike without popular support is doomed to fail?

[Mistoffeleze]

Along with tube drivers and other workers (teachers) who have stricken (?) in recent years, without the general population behind you, you are doomed to fail and this most recent strike by RMT is a cynical bid to get money for your staff at the expense of anything else in nothing more than a last-ditch attempt to justify the existence of unions.

Good news for Uber, at least. Anyone have shares?

Gosh. No. That would be too insulting.

Misti If you don't agree with your unions decision. Change unions. If you don't agree with unions don't join but remember unions will protect you if a student makes a malicious claim against you.

Please enlighten me.

Are you always this naive/ignorant, or are you trying to make a point?

If the latter, can you be explicit about whatever it is?

I'm a southern user - any sympathy has long since evaporated. I now couldn't car why they are striking and just want resumption of services. I am by no means the only customer who feels this way.

so if an employer wants to do something which you genuinely think is unsafe you just accept it or leave?

Well, if you feel what they are planning is genuinely unsafe report it to the HSE. Ultimately its management's legal responsibility to ensure safety. If you feel they are breaking the law then report to the relevant authority!

Waxy if you were in a wheelchair and this meant you'd no longer be able to use the train, how would you feel about it?

Marceline can you even go to tribunal with less than two year's employment these days? Iirc you are protected by almost no legislation these days with less. Hence a tribunal wouldn't be an option anyway.

report to the relevant authority!

+Bananabread.

Zack, please tell me what other things that aren't covered by tribunals and the HSE might happen?

"It's the way the industry is going, they refuse to modernise." Well, good for them. No one can pretend with a straight face that taking staff off of trains is in the interests of customer service or safety- especially for passengers who are wheelchair users.

I can... fewer staff means lower costs, which helps enables more investment and contain prices... and yes more profits which support, amongst other things, ordinary workers' pension funds.

Have you heard of the Luddites? We'd have remained in the dark ages if we never sought to be more efficient in how we operate. How would that have funded our health service etc?

a tribunal wouldn't be an option anyway

Unions make representations to the Employment Tribunal, the same Employment Tribunal that employees can appeal direct to.

pay for any legal fees

There's financial assistance for those that require it, including charities that help cover legal fees (links upthread).

Thanks for posting that item by the conductor Giddy. I have to say that I was unaware of exactly what the issues were with DOO's,quite horrified as to the safety implications. I am a Southern rail user, albeit thankfully not everyday. My issue with the industrial action is that it has escalated from some services being cancelled to wholesale cancellations across the board. I think the blame for this though lies with the company, prior to the strikes they were awful during normal operating conditions. 300,000 people are having to use a substandard everyday whilst the shareholders reap the profits. If the Govt was serious about this it would do something about the company. I think the Tories are playing a dangerous game here, most of Southern's customers live in Tory constituencies, we won't forget this come the election.

I have a friend who is a train driver (not Southern). About a year ago he had a massive heart attack while driving the train. The train came to halt because his foot came off the pedal (kill switch or whatever).

The only reason he survived was because there happened to be a driver (from another rail company) on board the train and he drove the train to the next station and the awaiting ambulance. Normally they aren't allowed to drive trains other than of their own company but it was an emergency so an exception was made.

Who knew this other driver was on board? Who was able to unlock the cab to administer first aid and allow the other driver to take over? Who reassured passengers after the sudden emergency stop? Who notified the rail company of the emergency and requested an ambulance be waiting at the next station? The conductor.

AyeAnorak - I've not heard before that driver only trains would mean that wheelchair users couldn't use them? There would still be conductors on board - albeit with a more customer focused role - and station staff? But happy to be corrected if there is a link?

RMT have a history of taking the piss, unlike most unions. I find it very hard to believe them.

Waxy see up thread for the conductor's view. They're already finishing their shift and having nobody to hand over to. Nobody who knows you need assistance to get off. If you can attract the attention of platform staff at a manned station, they could do it. But I wouldn't bank on it. And you'd better not plan to get off at an unmanned station.

Smart well today's standstill was brought to you courtesy of ASLEF so you can rest easy.

some of us remember the miners striking in the 1970's now that really was a pita and pulled up the entire country to a near halt this is minor [excuse the pun] in comparission

Yes pip I remember the 70s. Our expectations were a lot lower then though! The crux of this is that it's rumbled on for what 18 months now? Without strike action the service is understaffed and in conflict and crisis. Goodwill which greased the rails (ahem :) ) has gone. It's only on days like today that it makes national news. I know people who've left jobs because of the constant disruption. I don't think people who aren't on the trains understand what normal is on Southern Trains. If it were a school it would have been in Special Measures ages ago...

The problem with the 'explanation' posted by giddy is that it is that conductor's opinion not fact. There are other posts by other staff that contradict some of those points (around the reasons behind the sickness and not working rest days etc - indeed, some of the previously contentious sanctions such as being (un)able to swap shifts were lifted and yet RMT pressed ahead with strikes to the point that it became unclear what they were holding out for).

Additionally, how on earth can the conductors realistically claim to personally monitor every door on the train? They are over-egging their impact there. Anyone can see that it is not possible for one driver, or one driver plus one conductor to personally witness that every door is free from obstruction, trapped clothing etc without the use of cameras! That aspect is just daft. As for personal safety onboard, I've had several journeys where I've not clapped eyes on a member of staff onboard. I don't feel like there's anyone there 'protecting' people anyway. It's a purely selfish strike to protect their own positions. I have no respect for RMT whatsoever, they've been awful and militant about striking for years.

On teachers... You are Ill-informed as well as polemic. Teachers are ONLY allowed to strike over pay and conditions, not curriculum issues. So the strikes last year WERE (ostensibly) about pay. However, teachers' concerns were centered around the changes to schools and schooling - poorly administered exam changes, insufficient money for schools, applying recruitment and retention crisis... They weren't allowed to cal a strike on this basis but that was the basis of it.

Wonder I take your point that we can't know how much of it is opinion and how much is fact. However, the thread was very much opinion and misinformation at that point and this was the most informed thing I'd read on the subject.

You say "that it is not possible for one driver, or one driver plus one conductor to personally witness that every door is free from obstruction, trapped clothing etc without the use of cameras". That's your opinion. But if it's not possible for two people to see then is it possible for one person in a driver's cab to do that? Particularly if the cameras are showing a series of stills (not real time moving images) and not showing the whole door clearly. Particularly if something is trapped and the driver has to look at the track, cameras and have the platform behind him?

When I'm driving a car I use my mirrors properly but I do a quick check over my shoulder when moving sideways (changing lane or pulling out). I don't necessarily see a hazard in a detailed way with that quick glance but I have on occasion seen something that's made me look properly and take evasive action.

They're not moving around on the platform once they've shut the doors though are they
At the point of having shut the doors, they can't see all the doors to know if anything's been trapped in them...

PS yes I know it's ASLEF but it's RMT that I've really come to despise over the years, they're definitely the ones that have caused me most (unnecessary) pain out of any union.