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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think the Southern Rail strike is not National News?

179 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/12/2016 13:16

Watching the BBC news at lunchtime. Tiny snippet of news about Aleppo and now massive in-depth coverage of the Southern Rail strike include homevideos of commuters journeys etc.

I understand this is an important issue for those who live within the small area covered by Southern Rail - but does it really merit coverage on the National News - surely should be a local news story?

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 13/12/2016 23:05

I don't think they would with children, and I don't think commuting in from right outside London makes London seem fun at all.

And that's fair enough. I like my Zone 6 with two kids and (thankfully South West) trains well enough that I'm not skipping back to the mother country, let alone anywhere else in Britain. Plenty of fun to be had and the kids seem to love it.

Takes all sorts, which is nice.

Pseudonym99 · 13/12/2016 23:13

This has been going on since April. It is has only just been in the national news. That is not excessive. Perhaps the miners' strikes in the 80s shouldn't have been in the national news because it didn't affect the South East? The issues involved affect, or will affect, then whole country

roundaboutthetown · 13/12/2016 23:16

That sounds like one of the wealthier and leafier parts of London. Keep your fingers crossed you can continue to be thankful for Southwest trains.

JassyRadlett · 13/12/2016 23:24

That sounds like one of the wealthier and leafier parts of London. Keep your fingers crossed you can continue to be thankful for Southwest trains

Yes, and I'll cross my fingers for you that they don't put a high speed railway line or a waste incinerator next door, or that your kids don't go off the rails when they're older because they're bored to sobs. Wink

. Or we could just accept that we like different things, and be ok with that, without trying to be doommongers for the other to demonstrate that we think their choices are inferior or that they are somehow misguided or inferior? Might be a stretch, but let's give it a go.

roundaboutthetown · 13/12/2016 23:30

And where exactly have I suggested Londoners are inferior in any way?!?! Pointing out that getting 20 times more investment than anywhere else in the country does not stop it suffering from pollution and overcrowding is not saying it is inferior, it is merely pointing out that whilst lack of investment is making the entire rest of the country suffer (so where's your weird interpretation that I am being smug to live where I do in that?!), excessive investment in London is not doing it many favours, either.

JassyRadlett · 13/12/2016 23:35

I just can't really get my head around got réponse to every post where I say I personally find it fine and not 'not fun' or the other things that you find it, being basically 'yeah, well, it'll probably all turn to shit, because London. And the only reason it's ok is no kids/rich (we're ok but it's not Richmond or Merton)/ nice area and plus you'd better hope your trains don't get fucked. It's just a little bizarre.

I agree with you on a lot of the structural issues, by the way. And I have no problem with you having your own views about London. My actual experience is different, and that's fine. Plenty of people in my situation, plenty in yours. Live and let live, eh?

roundaboutthetown · 13/12/2016 23:37

Seems to me, Jassy that you are the one here who has gone out of your way to imply that others' "choices" are inferior - high speed railway lines and waste incinerators, indeed. You forgot fracking, you know. Is this coming from someone in a position of such wealth that they have made genuine choices, not huge compromises?

TheSnorkMaidenReturns · 13/12/2016 23:38

I don't live in London or the SE but can see this is a massive national story for all the reasons mentioned already. If BBC lunchtime news was crap try listening to Radio 4 instead where there has been plenty of coverage throughout the dispute about the causes and the consequences.

I've got friends who live in the affected area and work in London. They are broken, desperate, distraught. It's affecting everything in that area and having damaging economic consequences.

I absolutely agree with all the posters who say if this isn't national news why did we all agree the Somerset and Cumbrian floods - directly affecting far fewer people but with mainly local impact - were key national stories? We agreed they were because of the horrific impact they had on people's lives.

Pseudonym99 · 13/12/2016 23:59

It really is carnage in South London / Surrey / Sussex / Kent / Hampshire. People leaving home at 5am to get to work, not getting home until gone midnight after having to pay for a cab. Hundreds of schoolchildren stranded not able to get home. Not just on one occasion due to unexpected snowfall. Everyday for months and months due to the Government washing their hands of what they've caused

JassyRadlett · 13/12/2016 23:59

Seems to me, Jassy that you are the one here who has gone out of your way to imply that others' "choices" are inferior - high speed railway lines and waste incinerators, indeed.

I'll apologise for that - I felt very goaded by the tone of your posts and felt like playing back to you how your posts sound to me. I think it's about as accurate as the picture you seem determined to paint about my life in London.

You forgot fracking, you know.

Hang on, do you want infrastructure investment or not? Wink

Is this coming from someone in a position of such wealth that they have made genuine choices, not huge compromises.

Nope. Came to this country with nothing in my pockets, all my family abroad so no support from them here. ave made some good choices and been very lucky, particularly in terms of when we were able to buy a house, and we are comfortable enough now after some very lean years, but definitely not the picture you paint. Would be much better off financially and in living space terms in another part of th country, probably. Sorry, I know that doesn't fit the narrative.

roundaboutthetown · 14/12/2016 00:13

You are very obsessed with narrative, Jassy. I am sorry if you took offence at my description of London as a misery pit and, as you apologised for your comments, I will apologise for mine. Nevertheless, I think London has gone downhill in recent years, despite the investment, and the comment was designed to be forceful not because of some smug narrative about how clever I am not to live in London, but in order to shut up those who were conflating London investment and publicity with a thread about Southern Rail - i.e. to stop them going on and on about how lucky London was to get so much investment, as though that had anything to do with this thread. You have, however, insisted on going on and on about London as a result, so that attempt backfired. Grin

roundaboutthetown · 14/12/2016 00:18

And I think you know there is infrastructure and infrastructure. Which would you rather have as infrastructure - a hospital, school and GP surgery and well maintained roads between towns and cities, or roads leading to a fracking well that provides power to London?

roundaboutthetown · 14/12/2016 00:20

Anyway, it's still irrelevant to a thread about Southern Rail.

JassyRadlett · 14/12/2016 00:20

You are very obsessed with narrative, Jassy.

Am I? Gosh, I'd no idea.

On your second point - I'd hoped the addition of the wink emoji was sufficient signal of irony.

roundaboutthetown · 14/12/2016 00:28

And I had hoped my addition of emojis would make you realise I wasn't being particularly serious with my comments about London, but apparently not - you carried on and on like a dog with a bone, anyway, insisting I must bow down to your right to love living in London, as though I had ever said you were not allowed to like it.

JassyRadlett · 14/12/2016 00:29

And you're right, all this is totally irrelevant to the thread. I made a jokey throwaway comment in response to your intentional hyperbole (not offended, don't worry) and then got sucked into a rabbit hole of justifying that it's quite possible to like living in nice but a fairly average bit of outer London with kids, while making it very clear that other points of view were just as valid. Silly on my part, it was a pointless diversion.

JassyRadlett · 14/12/2016 00:31

Cross post. My response to yours was equally jokey, but then I found the tone of your subsequent post curiously different. Perhaps I misread your tone - and perhaps you misread mine. Anyway, far too late for such pointlessness. Smile

roundaboutthetown · 14/12/2016 00:39

Yes, looking back I think I did misread the tone of a few of your posts, Jassy and likewise you a couple of mine. Sorry! What a waste of energy!

zen1 · 14/12/2016 00:44

I live in London (not central) and the strikes have had a huge impact on all services in and out of London today. I think the story is relevant nationally insofar as the outcome of the dispute setting a precedent for how all the train companies in the UK operate their services in future. Also, if Grayling has his way, there may also be implications as to whether the law is changed to prevent drivers taking industrial action.

SquirmOfEels · 14/12/2016 07:58

DH had a dreadful journey yesterday (on bus like he always is, but with weird traffic patterns and hold ups). He's texted to say it was unusually quiet today.

So I wonder if people have given up, or spent on hotel rooms for the night between strike days, or what?

Liiinoo · 14/12/2016 08:39

DH has left for work. What should be a 40 minute journey on a direct train (we moved to this area because of the convenient transport links) now involves a bus, a tram and then a tube. It will take at least 90 minutes and will cost about £9.00 on top of the £2000+ he has already paid for his season ticket. Last night he had to get a cab home, luckily he got a good deal on Uber so it was 'only' £32.

He is approaching the end of his working life so is in a reasonably senior role where he can arrive late and not be penalised, he also has a high level of disposable income so actually has the cash to pay these extra costs. We don't have little children so when he gets home 2 hours late no-one is left at nursery or the childminders. How younger people on a tighter budget are coping is beyond me.

DH and I are born and bred Londoners who have been commuting for 39 years. The last 7 months on Southern rail have been the worst I have known but even with all this we completely support the RMT.

SeptemberFear · 14/12/2016 09:17

My commute yesterday morning from zone 6 to zone 1 took 90 mins. It should take 40 mins. My evening commute took almost 3 hours. 4.5 hours yesterday spent just trying to get to and from the office. I'm lucky enough to have an understanding boss who is happy for me to work from home for the rest of the week, but not everyone is so blessed. People have been sacked for persistent lateness, job applications go in the bin because living on a Southern route means you won't be considered a reliable employee.

The trains are so rammed, even on non-strike days, that over the summer people would faint in the carriages every single day. I'm a health professional and I genuinely lost count of the number of times I would end up answering a call at London Bridge for a 'nurse or doctor to platform 12' because some poor sod had found the journey unbearable. I've never suffered from claustrophobia or panic attacks or anything like that in my life, but the other day I actually felt tearful, panicky and breathless, packed in to a train with hundreds of other commuters yelling at each other, pushing and shoving, my chest being squashed, unable to move. It's miserable; paying hundreds of ££ every month for conditions that you wouldn't transport animals in. And as I said, this is 'normal' for Southern, this is on non-strike days.

So having said all of that, I support the strike. I actually don't see how anyone who uses Southern regularly can't support it - the company is clearly interested in nothing but its profits and doesn't give a flying fuck about the customers who pay extortionate prices to be treated worse than cattle. I know where the blame lies for this unholy mess and it's not with the train drivers.

If this Tory govt gets a chance they will curb the power of the unions even further. But anyone who thinks doing that will solve the hideous conditions of commuting via Southern is a fool. That's why this is a national story, because it'll be the rest of you next.

DailyFail1 · 14/12/2016 10:45

September - agree 100 per cent. I don't even use SR on my routes but the trains were unbearable yesterday with SR commuters on other lines. Fainted before in the summer when all this shit first started - got told off for not drinking water, but I didn't have enough room to even lift my bottle to my mouth we were so crammed.

1DAD2KIDS · 14/12/2016 11:04

SeptemberFear you have highlighted one of the main reason the strike, safety. The reason for Driver only operation was originally brought in British Railways days a time when many routes had very low passenger numbers. It was the only way to keep such quiet routes open. Times have changed, passenger numbers are massive and trains are packed as SeptemberFear points out. To put things in perspective:

in 1996 passenger journeys were about 750 Million
in 2006 passenger journeys were about 1750 Million

So in 20 years we have seen passenger journeys increase by 1 billion. The railway has never had so many passengers. So unlike the near empty trains of the dark days of BR we now have packed trains. Not only are they looking to remove the guard from the train but they are looking to reduce platform staff. Now tell me when passenger numbers go through the roof is it safer to have more safety trained staff or less?

Also platform staff and guards are in the front line of terrorism prevention. They are the ones looking out for suspicious packages and suspicious behaviour in the course of their duties. They are the ones who can spot sometime that doesn't look right in the railway environment. If we reduce staff we reduce we reduce or ability to prevent terrorism.

Also what happens when something goes wrong? Look at the Watford tunnel collision in Sep 2016. A train was derailed by landslide and another train from the other direction crashed into it. Both drivers injured. The guards on these trains were pivotal in making the situation safe. But what if its a Driver only train and the driver has been incapacitated? You would have no one on the train trained carry out the correct communication with the signaller, carry out correct safety protocol, carry out emergency protection or the evacuation of hundreds of passengers?

With huge numbers and packed trains people needing medical attention is a regular occurrence. At the moment the guard can make arraignments and deal with the situation while the driver can take the train to the next practical place for ambulance pick up. On a driver only train a drive can’t be two places at once.

Now here is the clever bit that the government and southern are playing. They are saying that its just about the doors and the guard is staying. It just gives them flexibility to run trains without a guard. But lets read between the lines here. If they get their way the guards job is protected till 2021, after that we all know what will happen; good bye to guards on all trains at Southern as they can run trains without them. Resulting in a huge increase in profits for shareholders (not for reinvestment into passenger services) at cost of passenger safety and possible lives.
Its a dangerous practice. In 2011 80% of serious platform/train interface accidents (i.e. body part trapped in door and dragged along as train departed) were on Driver only trains. So looking at the data you are 4 times safer on a train with a guard operating the doors.
This purely is a matter of putting profit before passenger safety and customer service. It sickens me that we have a government so determined to look the big man in front of the unions that it has already given £50 million of tax payers money to Southern to keep them fighting the strike. Money that the DFT could use to pump into more trains and less crowding. Basically they are rewarding Southern for its mismanagement and it pursuit of greed at peoples safety. If the government and southern win the only winner will be the shareholders, not the customer, not the tax payer and not the people that will in time lose their jobs. Striking is a very serious thing. People have mortgages to pay, children to feed. No one wants to lose out on their pay. This really is an act of last resort to defend our railway. And now the government are using this situation to pursue a dream of taking away people’s right to strike and collectively fight injustice in the workplace. Its disgusting.

So this is why I support the strike.

DailyMaui · 14/12/2016 12:58

Of course it is national news - because what is happening with Southern will then go on to affect many other rail companies and it is already showing that those companies can get away with running a fucking terrible service with impunity. That's appalling and makes it a real possibility that it will come to a franchise near you soon. If it hasn't already...

I travel to London daily, not on Southern but on another Govia owned line. It has gone from relatively good to pretty bloody awful since they took over. My fast train into London should take 20 minutes - I haven't been on one of those in WEEKS. Every train takes at least ten minutes longer than it should. Most of them more than 20 minutes longer. Yesterday it took me two hours to get home - it should take an hour. I'm late so often that it's embarrassing. Govia has replaced older trains with new ones which have fewer seats, worse facilities (many people work on the commuter trains - so they have got rid of all tables, including the flap down ones... Why?) and they regularly break down. The trains are RAMMED at rush hour. Yet despite all this we just pay more and more every year while everything gets worse and worse. And hilariously, I still think I'm not doing too badly because I'm not having to use Southern on a daily basis. Southern is the byword for "hell on train tracks."

Govia should be stripped of running these franchises and those lines taken back into public ownership like they did with East Coast. Public transport should not be a money making opportunity for business cronies. The amount of people who commute into London on a daily basis makes penny pinching while running trains the most short sighted moneysaving twattery ever.

I tweet various transport ministers and Govia every time my train is late/cancelled/broken down/rammed solid. I know it makes absolutely no difference but it helps me. It's a kind of commuting meditation.

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